Is there such a thing as "thin skin"?
My 87 year-old mother lives with us and has moderate dementia. My question is about her thin skin and her tendency to bleed easily. She has dark spots which she calls bruises but actually appear to be blood pooled under the skin making dark red or purplish blotches. They appear on her lower arms and she doesn't get rid of one before another one appears. Her Dr. has told me that it is a result of her thin skin at her age. It doesn't seem to take much for the surface of the thin skin to break and for her to bleed, sometimes just mildly bumping furniture will do it, as well as when her dog gets playful it can happen. I am at a loss to prevent this as her arms look awful most of the time. I have never seen her actually cause one of these blotches but she always says she bumped into something or the dog "scratched" her. Both situations that would not normally cause this type of injury. She is very self-conscious about it and with the dementia issue, if she were questioned by someone, I'm not sure if she could give a reasonable explanation. I have trouble figuring it out myself. In your opinion, would this be due to "thin skin"? Thank you.
As people grow older, their skin tends to become more fragile, and they lose the nice layer of fat that lies right under the skin, which used to protect them from bumps and bruises. Regarding your mother's skin issue, it is very common for this bruising to happen as people age. The "splotches" you speak of can be worse if someone is on a blood thinner (like Aspirin, Coumadin. or Plavix), which are commonly used to prevent strokes and heart attacks in older folks. Another medication that can do this is Prednisone, which can make the skin thin and cause bruising too. You can check with her health care provider to make sure if she is taking any of these medications that they are really necessary, especially if the bruising gets severe.
All that aside, you would like to know how to protect her skin and prevent these bruises. First, make sure her environment is uncluttered, as anything she bumps into will leave a mark (as you said). Second, you can cover her arms / hands with thick, long white socks with the toes cut out (make them like a glove) so that she can wear these around the house to protect her skin. These socks are effective, as they offer some additional cushioning, and they are washable and cheap. Third, if she uses a wheelchair or furniture routinely, make sure that any sharp parts are covered to protect her skin. Lastly, about her dog- make sure the dogs nails are trimmed to keep her from getting scratched.
i am only 53 and my skin does the same thing. doctor says "some people just do that". i moved to florida from arizona 9 years ago. my skin never did this in arizona.
I have the same problem with my arms, only below the elbows and the bruising or red spots last for weeks. I was raised in Florida in the sun continuously. I have just recently found Copper Peptide Serum and Emu oil and it works so good it is amazing. I was playing with my boyfriends dog and she won!! I knew the marks were going to last forever and I would have to wear long sleeves with the weather just getting warm but I tried the copper peptide and emu oil and could see a difference the next day. The horrible marks totally gone in a week not months. It it amazing stuff. I now use to every day to see if it will thicken the skin.
Glass2beads, now that you have been using Copper Peptide Serum and Emu oil have you noticed a difference? I have the same problem, mainly on on my fore arms as you, I can barely tap something and I get at least purpora and or tear my skin. It all really stated years ago after being on chemo and then tamxifen for 5 years, I am not back on chemo, my doctor has ran tones of blood test but does not find a reason for it. I believe that all the treatment I have has prematurely aged my skin, it appears like an 80 year olds skin at time, I am 51. Any help that you have had that you can share would be appreciated. Millieme
I may have a good answer for you. I also have very thin skin on my forearms and hands which bruises extremely easily. Being very upset that I constantly had to hide my arms with long sleeves, I researched "treatments to thicken skin", and I found that COQ10 seems to be a key ingedient. So I bought Avalon Organics COQ10 Ultimate Firming Body Lotion at CVS for $17. I've been applying it after my daily shower for about 3 months now - and very surprisingly, I think this lotion works. I haven't had one scrape or bruise the entire time. Yes, it's somewhat pricey, but after three months, I haven't used up the entire 8 ounce bottle. I think you should give it a try!
Thin skin in the elderly is quite a common occurrence, and Jennifer is right, it can be exacerbated by a daily aspirin, Plavix, or coumadin regimen (blood thinners) or by chronic use of prednisone for other conditions.
In addition to the loss of the fatty layer beneath the skin, one of the largest contributors to this tendency is actually chronic and lifelong accumulation of sun damage which causes breakdown of the elastic and resilient fibers of collagen and elastin in the skin's dermis layer. Additionally, these elastic fibers usually line blood vessel walls in the skin, so when sun damage accumulates, the vessel walls themselves are not as resilient, and can be more fragile, creating easy bruisability, even from no obvious known trauma.
A lot of this type of bruising (known by the nickname "senile purpura"--senile not referring to dementia, but just aging) can look scary to an outsider, but it does not mean an abnormal amount of trauma is occurring, just an abnormal response to regular everyday trauma.
In some cases, if it develops more suddenly after a blood thinner is added, the primary care physician may choose to decrease the blood thinner. Sometimes the combination of regular varicose veins in the area, and this fragile skin, can lead to more bleeding than expected. Don't be alarmed, but do call the primary physician to discuss options.
One thing to watch out for with an elderly, demented family member who may be on a blood thinner to decrease the risk of a clot, is the risk of an internal bleed that may occur due to a fall. This should also be discussed with the physician to make sure the patient is protected properly on both ends of the spectrum.
Millieme - I have used the Copper Peptide and Emu Oil for several months now and to be totally honest have not seen a huge difference. What I have found to be the best so far is AmLactin Moisturizing Body Cream. You can get it at any drug store. It has alpha hydroxy in it which makes the red marks disappear really fast but doesnt seem to help with building up the skin.
glass2beads - Alpha hydroxy is a very effective exfoliant for shedding the top layer of dry skin and revealing new healthier skin. But - is an exfoliant a good idea for thin skin? I'm thinking I need to thicken my skin, not make it thinner. As I said previously, I researched ingredients in lotions which would increase skin cell growth. The three I found were CO-Q10, copper peptides, and Vitamin C. The Avalon COQ10 cream I was using is expensive, so now I've switched to Nivea Skin Firming Moisturizer with Q10 ($10.50 at CVS). I have now gone four months with no new bruises - this is completely unusual for me! Hope this info is helpful---
I'm 62 & I also have the same problem,Thank you for sharing your stories, I will have to try these products myself,will let you know my results.thank you again Joyce4705
I'm 68 years old and started taking Plavix (one daily) about 8 years ago and almost immediately my arms bruised all over from the elbow down. I brought this to my internist's attention and he suggested that I start taking the Plavix every other day. What a difference. It was slow but they disappeared within a few months if I remember correctly. I still get real bruises, but nothing that I would interpret as being caused by Plavis. It's so much better. Ask your doctor.
I have this too and I'm 58, a far cry from 80! I am self conscious too and try to be so careful. My Dad had thin skin too in his early 50s. Wish I wouldn't have thrown away ny son's soccer socks, but I know I can still buy a new pair. Just worried this condition means something else.
YES I HAVE READ IT ALL AND WILL TRY SOME OF THESE LOTIONS I'M 58 LOOK 40 ( AND MY ARMS WITH THE BRUISES WHICH DIFFER FROM WEEK TO WEEK TO MED. TO SO BAD I LOOK LIKE A DALMATIAN WITH RED SPOTS ) SO LIKE I SAID LOOK 40 AND THESE DARN THINGS MAKE ME LOOK TERRIBLE OH SO VAIN AM I. WELL THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR INPUT.
I am trying the Avalon COQ10, and have only been using it for a few days. I believe this stuff is going to work, because I already see a difference in my arms and hands. I am 56 yrs old, and have been dealing with this problem for a couple of years. As each year goes by it has gotten worse. I feel so fortunate as to have found this web-site. Thank you Cindyh for letting us know about Avalon COQ10!! At this point, I don't care how much it costs, as long as it works!!! And so far it seems to be making a change. Good luck to everyone that has this problem. I know how embarrasing it is to go out in the world with bruised hands and arms!
All this has been very helpful to me as well. I am only 53 and have had this very same condition for the last couple years. I am going to try all the above suggestions b/c so far, all I've done is live with it! I did go to Ulta and purchase some of the cover up make up for such things like this.(and rosea, tatoos...all of which I do not have) This has been very helpful in social situations where I need to wear short sleeves and not worry about it showing!Plus, it covers it rather nicely while it is healing. Mine only takes about a week to disappear, but by then, I've already hurt my skin and have another "red blotch" starting! I highly recommend DERMABLEND Professional Cover Cream. 1 oz. from Ulta. The price? Who cares as long as it covers? Not that bad though.$18?
Also, just this weekend, we were babysitting a puppy Bulldog..and, yep, you guessed it..now my arms have red blothes on them (from the elbow down only) from little bites and scratches. My husband bow hunts and wears protective gear to protect his forearms from the strings on the bow when he releases, he is going to Google tonight some bow hunting protective gear for my little forarms!I bet you can also go to Acadamy, Bass Pro, etc.
~ There are times I know what I am doing is a risk, and this will be a perfect time to try this protective wear out! Working out with weights last week, I left the gym only to see the rope I was pulling over my head w/weights on it must have rubbed my forearms, and left markes!~ So, this is a perfect example as to WHEN to wear this protective gear..plus playing with our pets! I will post back once I get them and have had a chance to try them out! I am really excited to have something to protect my forearms, as to try out your suggestions as well! Thank you all!
fyi...at times I have to be on Prendisone for Colitus. This is the only thing that is related to this condition, as far as drugs that I have taken...but, I really don't have to take Prednisone that often? I wonder if it has broken down the skin from the times I have been on it and it never repaired? Any thoughts?
I have had this condition since I was 51 (now 55). It only occurs from the elbows down to my hands. I barely bump into something and the skin not only gets the red bruises, but tears and bleeds and bleeds. People think I am being abused! LOL I am also on Humira self administered shots (previously was on Enbrel). Does anyone know if this can be a side effect? Can't really find anything definitive on Humira sites.
Hi everyone! I certainly can relate to this problem myself. I have my own organic Skincare company and many of my customers have had rounds of chemotherapy and radiation or have had long term sun damage-especially on the forearms. Unfortunately many of the drugstore products simply don't contain enough "actives" ( the ingredients that do the "heavy lifting") to make a difference. Skin does "thin" as we age especially if we do not build collagen. So, what to do? First, do start protecting your skin today. That means with both clothing like gloves if you are cleaning or working in the garden and long sleeves if you can tolerate them. Nike makes some terrific super thin shirts that breath but provide coverage and, thus, protection. Alpha Hydroxy Acid (or AHAs) exfoliates the skin and encourages the growth of collagen. But this is a LONG process-at least until you can actually see a change. Personally, I make sure that I am using a pH of 5-5.5 in all of my products. Why? That's the pH of skin. Anything above or below will cause over drying and you'll get tiny cracks and fine lines. So wash with a neutral pH cleanser and be certain to use a moisturizer several times each day. I like products with grape seed and/or jojoba oil. They absorb well because the molecules are smaller. You won't end up with that greasy feeling on the skin. Many drugstore products contain petroleum by-products. Personally I don't like them but most dermatologists would argue that there is nothing wrong with them. I happen to think they don't absorb well at all or require alcohol as an ingredient so the product does not feel like Crisco. And while we're on the topic of alcohol, do not use alcohol containing products on your skin. I am talking about rubbing alcohol. When you see different types of "alcohols" on the ingredient list, they have a different purpose and do not have the same drying effect. And finally, keep drinking water. Dehydration is visible on the skin. You may not need eight glasses but you're not a camel, either. Visit my site at www.circa60skincareinc.com where you can email me directly!
I just bought some Nivea Skin Firming Moisturizer with Q10 at WalMart for $8.47... they also have their generic brand Equate for $4.97..I'll be trying it and if it works I'll come back with a report.
can we say MEN O PAUSE !!!!
This is a genetic skin disorder that jumps out around the time of menopause and when men's hormones are out of whack too.
During this stage of life, most of us have horrible migraines, headaches and constant head pressure. Relief comes in the form of Excedrin, Imitrex, etc. making the skin even worse. I prefer relief from head pain. I am on bio-identical hormones which have helped diminished the migraines and hot flashes but not the thin skin.....bummer.
I am 56 and am covered head to toe with black blood blisters. I too use the Q-10 lotions and they do moisturize the skin so it can heal faster.....yeah instead of a month, now a couple of weeks or more, depending on the size of the tear or bruise.
The ONLY make-up that works for me is CM Leg Magic. It is waterproof and doesn't smear on your clothes. It lasts a long time. I use two shades to mix together to match my skin, and use a Q-tip to mix with and apply, then tap all around with your finger to blend in with surrounding area. It will last you about a year if you use it daily. The tube is large.
I am single and it's a bit embarrassing. They look at me like I have leprosy or something. But, I dun care, am happy as ME !
Love and happy covering chillinjoan
I HAVE STRUGGLED WITH THE THIN SKIN RED BLOTCHES FOR A LONG TIME..I HAVE DONE A LITTLE RESEARCH AND FOUND CQ10 IS VERY GOOD FOR THE SKIN AND COLLOGIN .
SO I CUT THE END OFF OF A Q10 CAPSUAL AND RUB IT INTO THE BLOTCH..AFTER A COUPLE OF DAYS THE BLOTCH GETS YELLOW IN THE MIDDLE AND IN A FEW MORE DAYS IT GOES AWAY ALTOGETHER..I ALSO RUB SOME VIT E OIL ALL OVER AND THAT HELPS EVEN MORE..TOM
Today I was so frustrated at the bruises from just bumping my hands, I did a Google Search and found www.caring.com reference for geriatric purpura preventative treatment. I added Nivea Skin Firming moisturizer to my shopping list to try. My primary doc is an internist but hasn't suggested any solution. Some people look at the bruises and wonder if I'm living with abuse. I put bandaids over the wildly colorful ones on the backs of my hands. Thanks for the suggestions offered by caring readers willing to share solutions!
Thanks so much for speaking about this. I am 52 and have been tapering down from prednisone for a year. I usually don't care what my arms look like. I have to go to a dinner theatre tomorrow. lol I look like I have been beaten.
Going to look for long gloves later. I am NOT going to buy a new dress to impress anyone. Hope there are nice gloves out there that are cheap. Maybe a wrap? I'll have to see.
I am 67 and tell people I have 90 year old skin. Mine started getting very, very thin several years ago. Now I get the ugly bruises and skin tears on my arms and legs all the time. It doesn't help that I am a klutz and have 4 large dogs and 5 cats. To make matters worse my doctor recently put me on Plavix.
According to my dermatologist there is really nothing that can be done for this. As we age we lose the fat under our skin and it becomes very thin. There are also other causes but mostly once our skin thins it doesn't get thicker again. He told me to try Vitamin C cream but that doesn't seem to help me much.
I tried stretchy biking sleeves for protection but the elasticity bothered me at the top of my arm. Now I have found two places that have wonderful protective items for those who need something like that.
1) www.harmonycr.com has some wonderful beige terrycloth sleeves that I use casually and 2) www.dermasaver.com has some wonderful products to protect the both arms and legs. They don't look too awful either and are loads better than all the bruises and such.
I'm definitely going to try some of the creams recommended here also. Thanks!
I have never been a sun bather; so being in the sun a lot is not an issue for me. I am a cancer survivor (2x), but I did not have chemo or radiation. I am estrogen receptor negative meaning I could not take tamoxifin or other cancer deterring drugs. I was put on a super high dose of prednisone (60 mg/daily), and after 3 weeks my melatonin was almost nonexistent, or seemed that way. I ended up getting 1-2 hours sleep a night - this really did a job on me! I've also had spine injections using steroids. Perhaps the prednisone & steroids contributed my thinning skin? Regardless, I, too, am experiencing 80-year-old skin 20 years too early. I also am going to try the COQ10 and other products mentioned here. Thanks to everyone who contributed their information.
Wow and I thought I was the only one with super thin skin on my arms - thanks you all for the suggestions, I am definiately going to try the Avalon COQ10 Lotion.
I just found some new cream that, so far, seems wonderful. It is called CABOT P.O.L. Cream (pure omental lipids) and can be found at http://www.cabotskincare.com/ My arm and leg skin feels much more thick and healthy. I just got it this week so it will take some time to see if it has any lasting effect. I have ordered some beige Posey armsleeves at http://www.wrightstuff.biz/poar.html. These are carried in other places as well and some have Posey leg protectors too. I'm hoping these will look and fit better than the biking sleeves I have.
I have the same problem of red spots under my skin up to my elbows. I have rough dry skin since I have had chemo. It is almost as rough as sandpaper. If I rub lotion on my fore arms, unless I do it softly, then that even causes the red spots.
I recently bought some Coenzme Q10 serum because my chin was breaking out in pimples. The serum is in a small bottle with a stopper. I only have an eight inch long area on the top of my forearms that gets the spots so I have been using a drop of Coenzme Q10 serum on each arm in that area then putting a moisturizer on over it.
I have read that applying mouthwash will heal the red spots very fast too. I haven't tried it yet.
I was taking a full aspirin, but have cut down to one 81gram aspirin of a morning and one 81gram at bedtime, which is about half an aspirin. That and the cq10 has helped a lot. It seems that I don't get as many spots, they aren't as dark and they disappear quickly.
I have read all of the comments and advise. I am going to try them all!! I have become very depressed about my arm/hands thin skin. I wish I would have started caring about the condition years ago. But no time like the present. So here goes and I will let you all know if it works or at least helps.
5-15-12 -- Caring.com is a great site. All the discussions and advice were extremely helpful, so I want to support the effort by contributing. I am 79 and getting extra sensitive to scrapes and red blotches. I believe the steroid inhaler I need for asthma affects my skin and bones. To heal scrapes, Johnson & Johnson Tough Pads hydrocolloid adhesive patches are essential for me. They are a totally different way of healing so you have to try them to believe them. You can cut them smaller (not supposed to), and I have some band-aid size ones too but can't find the maker's name. I found the Cabot POL cream good for dryness but it contains many chemicals. Walmart's Equate cream sounds like the best option for cheapskate me; I'm about to order some and will report back.
5-16-12 -- The Posey armsleeves sounded good and I nearly bought some, but instead I cut the toes off an old pair of knee-high nylon hose and they fit my forearms perfectly. I plan to use them when doing yard work and after applying skin repair cream.
I am 54 years old, very active, go to the gym every day, jog, lift weights, etc. However, i get those blood spots on my forearms with the slightest touch. I was getting so embarrased and depressed. I tried that amlactin lotioin. what a miracle cream. I gets rid of those red marks fast. You apply it twicw a day. You won't really notice anything after the first day. But by the 4th or 5th day the results are amazing. It will slightly irritate very sensitive skin after using it for a week or two, but you just kind of lay off a little. The amlactin cream got rid of all the red marks. Then I am using the nivea c q 10 firming cream to toughen up the skin. It is working great. But you still need to be very careful about bumping yourself.That is just something we wil always have to be mindful of.
Have not seen any answer that mentions chlorella, which is an algae and a natural food in its own right. I get mine from Amazon, and a bag lasts a long time at a spoonful at a time in water. I first found out about chlorella from an elderly chinese fellow whom I asked about his really nice skin for his advanced age. Instead of shooting me, he told me about chlorella. Now I am old, and remembered. Chlorella is made in great quantities in Japan, where it is stored as emergency food for the masses in disaster times. Skin is just healthier, and bruises are faster to heal and harder to start.
7-5-12 -- I tried the Nivea skin firming body lotion on my arms, but not often enough to do a proper test. The ingredients sound good and it feels good on my skin, but it hasn't had a noticeable effect on my blotchy red arm bruises so far. The chlorella sounds good, and since I'm a supplement junkie I'll probably try some. On another skin topic, I can report that I removed the dark brown pigment from a small, flat mole on my face by applying apple cider vinegar to a bandaid every day and placing it over the mole for a week.
I am 54 and have thin skin, with lots of blotchy redness and rips. I was getting bad sores from just touching things like the corner of a cardboard box. I started using MUCH more moisturizer and sunscreen on my arms. I have been using vitamin E, and an oil I got at CVS called Bio-cell. Also my doctor prescribed Silver Sulfadiazine and it makes the sores heal extra fast. I have been pleasantly surprised because the wounds tend to become deep and get sore and infected. I can't even Use band aids as my skin rips with them!
7-22-12 -- I just discovered Tegaderm transparent skin protectors, which come in several sizes. Like the more opaque hydrocolloid type, the whole surface is adhesive and waterproof, and you leave it on for several days until the wound heals, which you can see right through the patch. I used them on shingles blisters and they are perfect, except I changed them in five days and took off some surface skin, but it was not painful as the adhesive is very gentle. I dabbed them with 3% hydrogen peroxide before applying fresh Tegaderm seals, and two days later they are still healing fine with no sign of infection. I also cut one in half to cover two scrapes I got on my shins from bumping into things. Complete directions are in the package and they are readily available in drugstores or online, but you need to look for the lowest prices.
Thanks for all the info on thin skin. I have had red spots and small cuts from cardboard at work. Working around boxes and counters with sharp edges , always getting scratched or stabbed by sharp corners. your workers start thinking your weird, because it doesn't happen to them... I thought I had some weird disease. but I went to dermatoligists they said its was from being in the sun to much when I was a teenager and maybe getting alittle older too:) So I will give these different lotions a try and let you know the results :)
I am a 61 yr old female that started getting red blood spots under my skin & tear easily also. I have always laid out in the sun with no protection. My Dr. said it's sun damage that causes the thinning due to collegen depletion. I recently started taking an aspirin a day for medical reasons & the blood spreads in a much bigger area now. Yes it's very embarrassing . One thing I found was that if you immediately massage the area you hit ( you need to do it fast though ) it doesn't bleed out. Just rub back & forth fast but gently. I'm going to get some coq 10 serum to try. Thanks. Maybe I can avoid getting them . I have found a product called AlphaDerma CE by Janson Beckett. it replaces the collegen & thickens the skin according to another website I went to looking up this problem. A few ladies tried it & says it's great. It's good to put on wrinkles on your face too. I rub it on my hands & bottom part of my arms 2 times a day.( a little goes a long way ) Try to do it when you don't need your hands in water. It's pricey but if it works it'll be worth it. I'll let you all know after I've used it for awhile if it's working.
hi, I am 54 yrs old and also started having bruises real easy all of a sudden.....the slightest bump will give me a bruise in my hands or forearms, anyhting will break my skin......well....after much thinking and reading....i figured out that in the last 2 yrs i havenÃ‚´t been eating very good, lost a lot of weight.(money problems)...and with that....the layer of fat that protects me......so, for some people the solution might just be a better diet.......beyond my reach for now so i will have to try the coq10 cream at least for the healing....
I have tried BioSil capsules, a product of Belgium. It has built up the collagen in my lower arms and I have fewer red spots from a bump, etc. The recommendation is for 2 a day, but I have been taking only 1 a day. The blood was oozing from my forearms before as the skin was so thin. I have been on Prednisone for a few years, but am also 81 years old! It was purchased at Nutri-Chem pharmacy, is expensive, and almost a miracle product. Essential for collagen, bones and joints, and beautifies hair, skin and nails, it says on the container - and it is true for me. Look it up on the web. Ask your doctor if she knows of any downside to this choline-stabilized Orthosillicic Acid capsule.
I too have thin aging skin on my arms, both upper and lower. I am convinced that the skin on my arms started after using being on Arrimidex for a couple of years. I was on it for five years following a lumpectomy and radiation for breast cancer. No chemo though. My doctors said they hadn't heard of it causing skin problems but mine started then and kept progressing even after the treatment ended. (I started using it when I was 56. Now at 66, my arms look almost as bad as my 87 year old mother-in-law. I can't even wear short sleeves. I will try some of the products you all have mentioned. Thank you for some ideas.
9-9-12 -- Gloves in a Bottle has worked very well on my hands, so I plan to try it on my arms now that my skin is so fragile. It's easy to find on the internet if you want details and testimonials.
Two weeks ago I started taking COQ10 soft gels. Up to that time the slightest scratch or nick resulted in mass bleeding, infections and ending up with deep scaring. I've been going through this with what should be minor scratches for 3-4 weeks at a time. This last time I finally gave in and started taking antibiotic the infections were uncontrollable. Today I barely scratched my elbow (again) and, to my surprise, I only ended up with a very minute scratch that is barely visible. I am amazed!!!! Is it because of the COQ10? I'm hoping so, as I've not had this "slight nick" occur for 2-3 years now. I'll keep everyone updated, but today I'm thrilled, as I'm still in the process of healing other "bleeding scratches" from OVER two weeks ago.
I've caught up with the new postings and now have some more things to try. I'm going to get some CoQ10 cream today. I'm not sure how to tell what ph a particular skin product has though.
Circa 60 I have tried to go to your website, www.circa60skincareinc.com, but all I get is a screen indicating that it doesn't exist. If you still read these please send a corrected url. Thanks!
The correct URL is www.skincareinc.com, but circa 50 or 60 don't exist. Sorry.
For thin skin that was tearing we received samples of POL Cream. It worked pretty well and I bought it online from Cooperlabs. I used it all the time and it is not cheap -
An update to taking COQ10 for thin skin and massive infections due to "minor" scratches. I reported before that I started taking COQ10, 400 mg, once daily, and to this I've added Chlorella, 400 mg, 2X daily (1-a.m., 1-p.m.). I'm thrilled to report that yesterday I accidentally scratched my left arm, and it stayed just that - a scratch with minor bleeding. My skin did not rip or leave this massive blood bruised area that has been predominant requiring huge bandages to "try" to cover the area. I mentioned before that perhaps the COQ10 might be helping, and I do believe that to be the case. I added Chlorella, 400 mg, due to reading how that might help skin conditions, too. I've been taking the Chlorella for 3-4 weeks now along with the COQ10 - I am ABSOLUTELY THRILLED that COQ10 is absolutely working, and to me I'm just adding additional skin care with the Chlorella. The Chlorella is $11 plus change for 100 capsules at Vitamin Cottage, and King Soopers (Kroeger) has the COQ10 in bottles of "40" as a BOGO ($48 plus change). This is the cheapest COQ10 I could find, and the red capsules are larger than most capsules, but they go down easily. MANY, MANY THANKS to those who suggested both of these products. They are a "God-Send" for me. I hope this helps others, too.
ooooooook...like Dee said, when you do get a bump or scratch, immediately rub it vigorously for like a minute....it DOES HELP alot.
I am 57 and this all started with peri-pausal stage 10 years ago.
YET, THE BIGGEST IMPROVEMENT I HAVE FOUND IS THE BIO IDENTICAL HORMONES!
I have been on them for a year now and OH what a difference!!!! I have the skin I had 10 years ago. Now it's NOT helped any wrinkles but the thickness and bruising has been an unbelievable change. I can open a cereal box without worrying about getting scratched or skin torn when hitting something. It's take a long time to see the difference for the skin to build it building blocks back up, but it does work! Expensive? I think so. I spend $90 a month for an every other day progesterone turquoise capsule, estrogen cream and even testosterone cream rubbed on inner thighs. All from a compound pharmacy store that Insurance will not cover. I tried the synthetic first with no change whatsoever for a year.
OH, and I no longer get migraines either!
I have been sacrifices to afford them but so worth it. I feel better, more energy, stronger, happier and thicker skin!
For what it's worth: I'm a 76 year old male who is very active, work full time, walk at least 3 miles a day, eat healthy foods and exercise every morning, . Several months ago i began having bruising on my arms and hands. I was also concerned about slowly losing body weight and upper body strength so every day I started having a protein drink with 8 oz of orange juice with 1 scoop (36 grams) of 100% whey protein powder (Cystosport from Costco) blended in. To my surprise in a few days the bruises were gone. I have been doing this for about 6 months now without bruises except for once when I didn't have my protein drink for about 3 days. When I resumed my drink the bruises again went away. I don't know why, but it works for me. (I'm shooting for living 100 years.)
One significant cause of this condition is very simple. I have endured bruising on my arms for years. Then one day my doctor changed my life. He asked me if I slept on my arms (essentially arms under the pillow sleeping on my stomach.) I said that I did and he said there is the cause of your problem. I find it uncomfortable to sleep any other way so I just wear long sleeve shirts and keep on rockin'. Remeber your physical condition cud be far, far worse. Just do what i do...tell people that your extra job is handsorting wolverines by sex. They will understand completely.
I noticed that my skin changed about 1 year after I had my last menstrual period. It is thinner, gets irritated easier, and takes longer to heal than before. My stress dermatitis is worse than before, and spreads more than it did before. Things change as we age..... and not always for the better!
coconut oil internally will thicken your skin. Had the same problem starting at age 40, not due to meds. Ugly, depressing & embarassing!!! Started taking 2-3 tbsp in coffee every a.m. for another problem. After several months it dawned on me my arm skin was thicker & not breaking open...lots of recipes here to get in your body good luck to all..http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/
I've continued taking COQ10, 450 mg, and definitely have improved arm/skin condition. I am VERY impressed with COQ10. I'm also taking chlorella capsules, one in a.m. & one in p.m. I still have dry skin and thinning hair. I am now going to also try the "BioSil" once I locate it. Sounds like this will add the final solution to dry, thin skin with the bonus of helping thinning hair. I'll let everyone now how it goes.
I'm 62 and have suffered this problem for nearly 5 years now. My skin below knee is the worst. I have had so many stitches where I have "bumped" into something but with my skin so thin it normally tears. Lower arms are as bad too tho not needed stitches. I wear sweatbands on my wrists when cleaning and also at work and it does help if you knock against something it acts like a buffer. Also cut feet from thick bed socks this is a good standby for in the home where no one see you!! I have had three visits to top skin specialists and sorry to be the bearer of bad news but no amount of creams will help this. Some people have it worse than others and yes certain medication worsens the problem. The only thing is to try and avoid situations where you'll get a knock.
I've had good luck with Arnica gel ('Arnicare') for reducing the healing time needed for scrapes and bruises. This gel cuts at least one week off my normal healing time. I first learned about it from my plastic surgeon when I had cosmetic surgery done. He told me to take Arnica pills for several days both before and after surgery in order to minimize bruising. I find Arnicare works best if I can apply it to my arm soon after the scrape occurs. It's not expensive, and I do recommend trying it.
Many thanks for recommending Amica gel. I plan to try that as well. My skin is doing so much better with my COQ10 & Chlorella - haven't tried the BioSil yet, but I'm going to. My skin does tear at all like it was before COQ10 & Chlorella, but I do bang myself up enough to use a first aid spray. Working on bushes, etc., I invariably snag something. With the above advice about Amica gel, once I locate that, too, I'll certainly try it. Can't hurt, and if it works for me like it does for Cindy, I look forward to that. Thanks for the suggestion.
I messed up in my last message. My skin does NOT tear like it did before - at all! Sorry about that. I get scratches, but no tearing....
I am 74 and I have had low platelet count for some time. At my age and on prednisone after a kidney transplant I bruise with any slight bump and they last for some time. As a result, the back of my hands are permanently stained from the blood pooling there after some bruising. Does anyone know if there are ways to bleach out or reabsorb that discoloration? It looks like the back of my left hand is deeply tanned and that area is constantly tender to the touch. Any help would be appreciated.
My Father has the same problem with his bruises 'pooling' blood under the skin. I keep him supplied with Arnica cream from the health food store. It is a homeopathic remedy that helps disperse bruising much more quickly than it normally would. Try not to rub it in too vigorously, as that may cause more blood to pool....
Thanks CA-Claire I will pick some up. Does he also have permanent discoloration from the pooling? It is sooooo embarrassing and I am asked repeatedly about "WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR HAND?" I would love to have it gone and at least start again with a fresh clean skin there. I tried bleach and lemon juice offered by some internet site but to no avail.
No, there's no permanent discoloration from the pooling. It just takes time to go away. My Dad is 91, and was out in a the sun a bit throughout his life, so he has some of the discoloration from 'liver' or 'age' spots, but not from the bruising. I buy the Arnica Cream made by Nelson's, I think it works a little bit better than the gels and other formulations out. I spend between $6-$10 a tube, depending on the size. Wish you luck Ken!
You can also use make-up while it's healing
Thanks for all the suggestions,especially the makeup idea but I am reluctant to fight my wife for dressing table space each morning. LOL My problem is this is a permanent discoloration and even when no current bruising is present, I still have the dark brown discoloration on the back of my hand(s) that NEVER goes away.
Hi Ken, What about hydroquinone cream, which lightens dark spots and discolorations on skin? You can find many brands and prices for the 2% OTC cream on Amazon. I've used this to gradually fade away sun (brown) spots on my hands, and it definitely works. (A doctor could give you a prescription for stronger 4% hydroquinone cream.)
Hi. I'm only 42 but spent between the ages of 13 and 20 on a sunbed almost daily. As a result my skin is very leathery and thin already. I am extremely distressed by this, particularly as face is very affected. I worry about future and want to start protection now. Coq10 and chlorella seem popular choices. Can anyone advise re whether aha exfoliation is advisable for already thin skin? Any experiences of this would be helpful. Any advise in preparation for menopause would be good. I also heard wakame seaweed is good for building collagen. Worth a try!
Hello, I have some topics for you to research on Google. The gold standard ingredient for reversal of sun damage is Retin A, so look up Renova/generic Renova, which is a prescription Retin A moisturizer which I use on my face every other night, with absolutely fantastic results. It's available cheaper online from Canadian pharmacies and even cheaper with no prescription required from medicinesmexico, which is where I order my generic Renova. Another site to research is Paula's Choice, which sells both AHA and BHA exfoliation/moisturizer creams for the body. The two I like which have really helped to exfoliate and even out the skin tone on my legs and arms are Skin Revealing Body Lotion with 10% AHA and Resist Weightless Body Treatment with 2% BHA. I hope these ideas are helpful for you! P.S. Be sure to research Retin A!
I had to join just to comment and say thank you for all this information. I am just shy of 60 and have had this condition on my forearms for the last couple years. Mine seems to be brought on by the slightest bit of scratching and for whatever reason, my forearms tend to itch more than normal. I have ppeople ask all the time "What happened to your arms?" I had NO idea what was causing this until I found this site today. I will say, it has lessened my anxiety tremendously. I was afraid I had some blood disease! And yes, like the rest of you, it lasts a long time and when it finally is almost cleared, I scratch again and it seemd to appear in places I did not even touch! Thank you, thank you... Heading to the drug store right now and will use this Avalon lotion daily -
I am 57 y/o male and have been taking Accutance for the past 6 months for an ongoing skin problem, also taking Prednisone for the past 2 months. To top things off I'm a natural ginger boy who's been overdone by the sun. The skin on my forearms and backs of my hands is so fragile right now I can be bruised and not even know how it happened. I have used herbal remedy arnica and think it's somewhat helpful. I have microwaved damp washcloth for 15 sec and applied to bruised areas which seems to help disperse the purple business faster. And yes, I have my set up with Derma Blend and this stuff is better than spackle for a cracked wall! Just be sure to get the right color. Put it on sparingly and let it dry and it will be on for the rest of the day, resists rubbing off on clothing. I have only good things to say about Derma Blend, although it is not for broken skin. I will be trying one of the COQ 10 lotions. I am relieved to know I am not the only person having this problem. I share your misery.
For red blotches just beneath the skin , use fresh lemon juice; just cut a wedge ( about 1/5 of a lemon ) squeeze over the area and rub it in a little , leave the pulp on for at least 15 minutes then you may rinse off as you may feel the need to for whatever else you have going on, as may not want to go to work with lemon pulp all over your arm :). It works very well; also mentioned on here to thicken skin that I thought was best is Coconut oil in the diet and ,Chlorella , I am going to try some COQ10 lotion also, elsewhere noted is to drink plenty of water ( water in sodas and such does not qualify ), that's one tough for me for some reason .
HOW OFTEN ... start out twice the first day I would suggest , then once a day for the next 2 days , then every other day for 7 to 10 days ( along as you don't have any adverse reaction ). After this once or twice a week. Just a suggestion :) . I also use Braggs Apple cider vinegar it really aids in healing the open break /cut areas . Working around sailboats I am always getting a skin break / cut and I use this vinegar or other if I run out .
I have enjoyed reading all the posts and so excited to get the wisdom of others for a problem that is new to me and to hear others are equally bothered by the appearance on our arms. I did a search on the Avalon cream and found this repeated type of feed back: "I've bought Avalon Organics CoQ10 Wrinkle Defense Night Creme for several years. The ingredients in the product I know and love are:
Organic Lavandula Angustifolia (lavender), chamomilla recutita (chamomile), camellia sinensis (white tea) and organic arnica montana extracts (aqueous), organic helianthus annuus (sunflower) oil, vegetable glycerin, sodium hyaluronate, caprylic/capric triglyceride, cetyl alcohol, glyceryl stearate, organic simmondsia chinensis (jojoba) seed oil, stearyl alcohol, butyrospermum parkii (shea butter), cetyl ricinoleate, phenoxyethanol, benzyl alcohol, potassium sorbate, tocopherol ...
The two bottles that I recently ordered were in new packaging. Since the new packaging contains all the same wording as on the original package, I assumed that I got the same product.
WRONG. The ingredients have drastically changed:
Aloe, Water, C10-18 triglycerides, polyglyceryl-6 disterate, glycerine, clyceryl sterate, sunflower seed oil, jojoba seed oil, cetyl alcohol...
Be aware that the product package picture here on Amazon is of the old packaging and the original product. But what you will get when you order is the new stuff.
Sorry to say, I much prefer the original product."
Thought folks might want to know this. I have a growing order going for almost all the other suggested products! Thank you :)
I have had this condition since my mid 40's ... I'm in my 50's now. Surprisingly, many doctors even demotologists aren't familiar with this condition. It actually has a name (which I've forgotten) it strikes for some reason just from the elbows down. I'm sure sun exposure doesn't help the condition but I don't think it's the main cause for two reasons: 1. my upper arms have gotten just as much sun through the years as my lower arms and 2. My mother also got this condition in her mid to late 40's and that women avoided the sun her whole life like the plague. I bet there is a hereitary component to this condition and while traditional thinning skin is a age related thing ... this particular condition isn't an "older person" problem but something in your genetic code - in my opinion. How about some medical studies and some answers for those of us with this condition - - - and some education for the general medical community, this isn't something most people get but it is something that isn't extremely rare. The happening on the elbows down only seems to be the difference between this condition and just regular thinning skin.
I, Too, thought I was the only person with the thin/bruising/bleeding skin of a much older person! My doctors seemed unconcerned and did not offer any help. I just took my first CoQ10 tablet, and I will be shopping for other items recommended. Thank you all for your generous sharing of information :-)
I saw my primary care doc, a few weeks ago, about what appeared to be Senile Purpura on both forearms; she confirmed my "diagnosis". I ordered two pair of protective arm sleeves http://www.vitalitymedical.com/posey-skinsleeves.html and do my best to remember to put them on before doing anything that could cause more damage. It's not always easy to protect our arms because there is such a HUGE array of situations that can cause the bruising/bleeding. If nothing else, the SkinSleeves prompt me to be more "mindful" when it comes to my arms. I'm sixty-four - I was a sun-worshipper in my youth AND I've had bariatric surgery within the past year (I've lost 130+ pounds AND the fat pad that protected my arms). Given those skin-abuse situations, I'm not totally surprised to find that I've developed Senile Purpura but I am definitely dismayed at how unsightly it can be! I've also ordered a bottle of Avalon Organics COQ10 Ultimate Firming Body Lotion - hopefully, it will help "toughen-up" my skin.
I just did my own test of some of the suggestions given. I bought Nivea's Skin Firming Hydration Lotion [with CoQ10]. It wasn't expensive. Tried it for a few days and didn't notice a big difference. Then I bought 400 mg CoQ10 capsules, cut one open and rubbed it on my arms. The stuff is orange, so I had orange arms, but who cares if it works and it worked better than just the lotion. Finally, a few days ago, I started taking 1 capsule of the CoQ10 a day and it's working! My blood bruises are almost gone.
Update of my progress. I still using the lotion everyday, but I've been taking 1 capsule of Co'mQ10 every day for almost a month now and my blood bruises are GONE. I'm not ashamed to have people see my arms anymore and I've also noticed that the texture of the skin on my arms is much smoother and not so old looking.
I am 56 and a couple years ago my skin started thinning. Reading your post I no longer feel like the Lone Ranger. I know I don't drink enough water and do my best. I am into natural heath and have taken care of many things over the years that a M.D. told me I have to live with. I learn a lot over the years and if I do what I know I come out a head.
About 2 years ago I started aging so fast and wrinkles and thinning skin. I want just want to cry. It is funny how you one day look in the mirror and see you mother and grandmother...lol
I am going to try the BioSil, I forgot about that one, thanks for the post. The CoQ10 cream from Avalon is great. Also going to start taking (going to buy some) Ubiquinone. I think as we age sometimes the CoQ10 may not break down as it should if I remember right. Ubiquinone comes from CoQ10.
A quality anti-aging treatment will include skin firming ingredients such as DMAE which has been proven to improve not only tighten and firm the skin, but also tone the muscles beneath, to give the face a leaner appearance. Another important ingredient to look for in anti-aging treatments is Ubiquinone. Ubiquonine is a super antioxidant that boosts our body’s ability to produce collagen, elastin and other important skin molecules, helping our skin look young and healthy.
A quality anti-aging treatment will include skin firming ingredients such as DMAE which has been proven to improve not only tighten and firm the skin, but also tone the muscles beneath, to give the face a leaner appearance. Another important ingredient to look for in anti-aging treatments is Ubiquinone. Ubiquonine is a super antioxidant that boosts our body’s ability to produce collagen, elastin and other important skin molecules, helping our skin look young and healthy.
I just started putting DMAE cream on my face and taking capsules by mouth which helps the skin. It helps plump the skin.
Chlorella is a superfood, one of many and is perfect for anyone. The benefits are so amazing. Dr. Mercola explain (he is a great source, sign up for emails) http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/02/01/is-this-one-of-natures-most-powerful-detoxification-tools.aspx
I wanted to share a website www.vitacost.com where you can buy Organic Avalon Cream for $10 plus, BioSil 60 caps for about $28 they also have a larger size.
Also the Ubiquinol and this one is organic from the same website http://www.vitacost.com/reserveage-organics-active-ubiquinol-coq10-with-resveratrol-60-liquid-capsules
I got the DMAE Source Natural brand but you may like others for the face. If you buy the capsules you can open some of them up and put it into your body creams.
Coconut oil is the bomb. It is wonderful and has so many uses. Just remember this one thing. NEVER EVER put it down your sink or toilet. At 76 degrees it melts any temp below that it turns back to a solid...your pumping will not be good. If you rub it on your skin and soaks in your body and later on take a shower you are good. Your skin will love it...You can fry GUILT FREE in coconut oil. You can eat a teaspoon or tablespoon a day and has great health benefits and NO IT DOES NOT MAKE YOU FAT, it just the opposite. You want to buy raw extra virgin coconut oil that is COLD PRESS not Expelled. Cold Press will smell and taste of coconut...the expelled will not taste or smell of coconut and does not have the same health benefits...but makes a great pie crust. Great for Oil Pulling (google it) remember the plumbing. Dr.Mercola can share the benefits. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/11/18/coconut-oil-uses.aspx
The protein is important and I learn there is a difference. Most buy Isolate protein, but a lot of things are destroy in the process. You want PROTEIN COMPLETE don't be confused with Complete protein which I feel is Isolate Protein. Source Natural True Protein is a perfect protein. Dr. Mercola has one with his label and do believe this is the same one...this is a better price http://www.vitacost.com/productResults.aspx?NttSR=1&previousText=dmae+cream&ss=1&x=0&y=0&ntk=products&Ntt=source%20natural%20true%20protein.
Thanks for the post, you encourage me and realize I am not along.
I shared my "adventures" with Senile Purpura three months ago and, based on a number of posts, I'd ordered a bottle of Avalon Organics COQ10 Ultimate Firming Body Lotion - I was hoping for the best. Well, I received the ABSOLUTE BEST TREATMENT I've found, (so far) when my order arrived. With a clawed cat and an active lifestyle, my forearms were a teetotal mess - cuts, tears and bloody bruises from my wrists to my elbows. I have protective sleeves (purchased and homemade from tube socks) that help but I wanted to address the issue as opposed to simply protecting the skin. Avalon Organics COQ10 Ultimate Firming Body Lotion is, in one word - AMAZING!! I'm not saying it's a permanent fix - it's not . . but it does amazingly well at reducing the bruising, healing the cuts/tears (I can see a huge difference overnight!) and (in conjunction with the variety of sleeves) reducing the damage to my forearms. I'm very satifsied with the product, it doesn't take a lot of the product to see a huge difference (thus offsetting the cost) and - given the difference it has made - it would be well worth the investment at twice the price! So many folks, responding to this topic, have tried so many things with such high hopes that they would be effective. I'm not saying that my solution has eradicated the problem - it hasn't . . but it certainly has made it much easier and more successful to treat! Many thanks to the posters who recommended it!!
I am a 72 yr old male with thin skin condition for some 5 years. My mother had this condition - her skin bruising easilly. I've tried - Copper Peptide, hyaluronic acid, special skin 'thickening' cream (Bruise Guard), Avalon Organics with COQ10, Emu oil, 'Dermend' (supposed to clear bruises sooner) Coconut oil, large doses of Vitamin C with biofllavonoids, taking Collagen capsules orally. Nothing works for me. Being active I bruise my arms easily - I don't have the problem anywhere on my body except my arms and hands. I take no prescribed medication and my health and fitness are just fine. I guess I'll try Amlactin with Alpha Hydroxy next.
Have your Pituitary blood serum levels checked. Sometimes to high of a cortisol level can cause this. One in five people in the world have these rumors. Some grow and some don't for unknown reasons. 35% of the one in five grow. It's mor common than you think.
How to rebuild your skin and make it thick again.
2 things to take: horsetail extract pills (1 pill 3x a day) - i get mine from swanson vitamins online for cheap and collagen pills (1 pill 2-3x a day). i get a huge bottle of this from costco take both of these for atleast 9 - 12 months and your skin should be back to normal (yes it takes time to rebuild, but it does work.). and most doctors will tell you there's no cure - don't believe them. I'm living proof of rebuilding my skin to a healthy thickness again (was on cortesteroids for asthma and got thin skin as a result). but this remedy cured it. as a side note, be sure to drink twice as much water when taking horsetail extract . it seems to dehydrate a little and cause a little constipation. but drinking more water alleviates this.
3-30-2014 I have had this for around 2 years. I loved reading all these comments and ran to town today and bought Avalon CoQ10 lotion and collagen capsules to take. I'm really hoping this helps as I am just like the majority of you and find that my bruised arms are very embarrassing, especially when trying to dress nice to go to church. I hate looking abused! Thank you all so much for the advice and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we all are helped with this disgusting disfigurement! Hugs to you all!
This is a wonderful discussion. Thank you all. I have been taking Prednisone for a few years. My hands and arms are 85 and I'm 65. I try to wear stylish, fingerless gloves when I go out. They come long and short - from satin to cotton and can look like a fashion statement. Now if I could only remember to wear them to keep from bruising when I am at home. I also changed from a purse with a strap that kept falling on my arm and bruising it to a stylish backpack, eliminating some "purse bruises". Thank you for all the good advise here.
4-2-2014, http://www.vitacost.com I ordered it all today at this site and saved tons. I am so excited to see someone posting a topic on this issue. I started to get these red spots on my arms at 56. I am 59 now. I have never been a sunbather. I stay indoors most of the time, even as a child. I have always been very sensitive to sun poison, if I get in it. I use inhaled steroids for copd. They sell these white gloves on ebay that come to the elbow. I think we should start a trend..many hugs..
Hello all, I haven't posted here in a few months, but I'm always interested in all of your good ideas. So I have two new products to recommend. I've previously written that Arnica gel has shortened the healing time for my bruises/scrapes. Then I ran into a cream on Amazon called Dermend for about $23 which had great reviews such as "Will change your life", so I decided to give it a shot. This is my favorite product so far ... My dark bruises on my forearms/hands usually take 3-4 weeks to heal. I now apply Dermend twice a day for FULL healing in 9 days. Much better! Also, this is something different but interesting for you who are hopelessly vain like I am! I had had 3 IPL (Intense Pulsed Light) treatments on my face to eliminate sunspots, to stimulate collagen growth, and to even out my complexion. At age 64, I really like the results. So I asked the clinician if IPL could be done on my forearms and hands. Yes! I'm in the healing process right now, and my hands (after 10 days) look so much better. The color is even, and I swear my skin looks noticeably thicker. Here's a quote about IPL: "The ideal candidate for IPL is someone with light skin who has sun damage, broken capillaries, and some laxity or lack of firmness, and wants to treat all three conditions at the same time." As I said, this procedure may be for the very vain person, but it might be worthwhile to research.
Everyone is going to love this! I went to the sporting good store, and bought an arm sleeve. It is a Columbia brand, OMNI Freeze Zero. They come two in a pack. They look really cute on, and are very cool to wear. They will keep your arm cool in the summer and protect your arms all of the time. I bought a white pair, as soon as I get another 30.00 I am going to get a yellow pair. I just wear mine on one arm, because I only have a problem with one arm at the moment. These sleeves can be washed in the washer.
My mother who will be 88 this summer has had this problem for a long time. She has never been on medications for any health problem until recently when diagnosed with early Alzheimer's, so medication may or may not cause the problem. She has never had high cholesterol, high blood pressure, heart problems, thyroid issues, cancer or anything else. I have developed the problem within the last few years. I will be trying the COQ10 and vitamin C both in vitamin and in lotion form. One thing both my mother and I have is very low Vitamin D levels, mine needs to be constantly monitored because it is at *8. How are your levels on Vitamin D?
Very interesting as I also have low vit. D. My doctor is watching it and said I may have to take prescription vit. D. You just gave me something to research, thanks so much!
After reading through these I find a common thread, everyone got them around age 50. I just started getting them and turned 50 last September, take no meds that could cause it etc. I think 50 and sun is the cause, like at age 40 reading glasses become a necessity. LOL. Will try Avalon COQ10. Hubby started getting them at age 50 also...
i'm 80 years old. my hands, wrists and forearms are always bruised and bleeding and look like i just got out of a brawl with seal team 6. it's old thin skin and there's nothing to do about it except rejoice that i've lived this damned long. here's a tip: buy tattoo sleeves; they'll cover up the wounds and atrtract women.
Something that I have not seen mentioned is using liquid makeup to soften the impact of the blemishes for social occiasions. I use ESTEE LAUDER light diffusing makeup LUCIDITY. It does not hide the bruises completely, but reduces the impact by one-half to two thirds.
I started taking Vitamin D - 6000 IU a day. I no longer easily get the large purple blotches on my forearms. Very occasionally, I get a small (pencil eraser size) on my hands, which I do knock around a great deal. When I do get them, they are gone in less than a week now, where, before, they would take weeks to disappear.
Hi everyone...This is just a comment concerning the THIN SKIN situation we deal with. I am a male age 63 and have had R/A since I was in my teens and have been on varying amounts of prednisone for 45 years. Usually 15 =/- mg per day. This along with being outdoors alot the skin on my forearms is tissue thin, tears and bleeds just by looking at it. I have taken three steps to help with this situation. There is an arm covering called "Armchaps" that are nice light weight leather with a zipper. They are like a fingerless glove and go just shy of the elbow. Wearing these when you are engaged in an activity that can lead to damage these work fantastically. Secondly I use PURE ALOE VERA gel to moisturize and aid in healing. Aloe Vera is on of natures amazing plants. When I was in my twenties and living near the mexican border I had severe stomach problems, too much partying. An elderly mexican man had me drink boiled beet juice and fresh cut and squeezed Aloe Vera juice once a day for two weeks. My stomach cleared up and has never given me that kind of problem since. Anyway, for the Aloe Vera do it. I also use two different cremes, both are by "Medline Remedy" one is "Calazime"and the other is their daily moisturizing creme. Both of these are great skin enhancers and seem to promote faster than normal healing. Remember, moist skin heals faster than dry skin and also doesn't tear as easily. Good luck to everyone, wear those Armchaps.
Cindyh, I went on Sunday and bought the Nivia lotion. I'm 47 and suffer the same problem. I'm already noticing a difference and it has only been 2 days! Thank you! I'm suggesting it to my 87 yr old Mom!
I am so thankful I found this site ! Lots of good info and suggestions I will try. Just in the past 18 months, I have taken several rounds of steroids (oral ) , I use Symbicort and also was on Xarelto for only about 3 months. During my Xarelto use was when the skin on my forearms - just from the elbow down - began to thin drastically and tear at the least little infraction. I thought it was just the Xarelto, but I have not taken that now for 8 months! My wounds heal faster, but I still have horrible tearing . I am an out-doorsy kind of person and this has really done a number on me. Like many of you have said, my arms look like I have been run thru a meat grinder. This has not affected any other parts of my body, which I think is really strange. I am eager to try some of the remedies that others have posted on this page. A huge thanks to everyone else out there for this insight - my doctors ( yes, plural ) have given me no real advice other than to just be more careful !
I thought I was alone, after reading all of the posts, I am glad to see I am not the freak I thought I was. I am thin, 100 pounds for the last 4 years. used tanning beds back 10 years ago, and went to the beach a lot. Needless to say, I bruise at the lightest touch, I have brown spots on arms, legs and face and thin dry skin. I am looking forward to cold weather so I can cover up. I have tried several of the cover ups and the spots look cracked so I end up washing it off. I will try the CoQ10 cream and pills and Chlorella ( if I can find it ) to see if it helps. When I see a young woman with a tan I want to say STOP now before it is to late. I am 69 and this started when I was 60. I feel for all of you that posted and again, glad that I am not alone with this.
Aug. 17, 2014. Greetings and thank you for all your help. After being on Prednisone, I developed the bruising on my forearms. I asked my MD about this and he said he uses Gold Bond Intensive Healing cream for his bruises. I've been trying it and it helped some. The main ingredient is Dimethicone. After reading all the great suggestions here, I've been using Nivea Skin Firming and Toning Gel-Cream Q10, Dermend Moisturizing Bruise Formula and CoQ10 softgels. After doing some internet research I found a new " more natural, bio-available" form of CoQ10 called Ubiquinol. I've been taking one softgel of Ubiquinol 50mg orally and then cutting open one softgel and rubbing it on my forearms. I suggest you Google Ubiquinol and see if you think it might help you, instead of the original form of CoQ10. I am please to report that after about 10 days of these combined treatments, my right forearm is about 90% clear of bruises and my left is about 60% better. Not sure why one arm is healing faster than the other; does anyone know why? I'm right handed. Hope my post helps someone. I will report back on my progress.
Just starting Dermend. It helps heal the bruises. I have tried so many things and nothing works. The Avalon CoQ10 hasnt nor has the Amlactin. My arms are a mess. I wore long sleeves all summer.
Hi Wendy - I have used Dermend for several dark scrapes on my arms. Normally, a bad scrape on my forearm takes at least a month to fully heal; with Dermend applied 2x per day, it takes about 16 days. As for Avalon CoQ10, the main idea is to religiously apply moisturizer morning and night to your forearms. Dry skin makes the skin more vulnerable and the bruising worse.
I am 60 and have the same problems as described above. I only started noticing it about 6 months ago and none of my medications have changed. At the suggestion of a friend, I have been applying vitamin E to the spots...(pierce a vitamin E capsule with a needle and squeeze the oil onto the skin.) The spots fade quickly and disappear within a week. As for a more preventative solution, I think I may try a COQ10 supplement and see if that prevents some of the bruising.
May be lack of Iron and Vitamin B12 for thin skin. Stress can rob you of certain important Vitamins, etc. Fix the stress along with seeing doctor for blood work to see where you stand.
My dad and his mother both had this darkening of skin on forearms that had reptile like appearance. When he would bump into something often he would bleed under the skin. At times, his skin would break open and bleed. My dad had this prior to renal failure. He was prescribed ceravel lotion to well hydrate the area and he was prescribed a vitamin B complex. I am beginning this regimine to see if I can prevent it down the road. I currently bleed under the skin, bruise easily and have the thin reptile apperance to forearm skin only. I am 56. I will keep you posted.
Easy bruising and thin skin are also symptoms of Joint Hypermobility Syndrome (also sometimes known as Hypermobile Ehlers Danlos Syndrome) It is very under diagnosed and many medics are not well informed. It is worth finding out as it is much more than just bendy joints. Plenty good info on line.
I've bruised easily for decades on the back of my hands, but since switching to higher end (still under $10 per 8 oz.) lotions about a month ago have had no problems. I'm not sure if it's a causal effect or just fortuitous, but am hoping the oils cushion and the skin and thus its capillaries, making them less vulnerable to trauma and leakage.
My dr told me I had a fungal infection. How mortified I felt till a friend said it was thin skin. To those who think you have to bump it to bleed that's not always the case wrapping it did me no good either. Ill explain, I went out in long sleeves by the time I got to the store the friction of my shirt made me bleed. You could actually see where it rubbed off skin. It did it just by using arm no bumping involved just using my arm cause it to bruise and bleed. Thank you for coq 10 advise I happen to have some and have already applied. I'm keeping my fingers crossed (for all of us) I didn't live 53 yrs to fall apart now.
I am an Indian woman, 56 yrs old, and lived in India all my life till the age of 50. Then my husband was transferred to the US, where we lived for 3 1/2 yrs. During my stay there, I started bruising easily all over my body, not just on my forearms or below the knees. Every time I bumped into anything, like a bumper of a parked car, a corner of a table, even a tight grip on my forearm would give me a black and blue patch the next day. There was no bleeding, or pain, which puzzled me. Just the black and blue- purplish patches. I figured it was due to some deficiency, and didn't give it much importance, though I continued to be cautious, and watch for any other connections. I also had to do the washing up in the kitchen, and my knuckles would get sore and bruised, as if scratched. Another puzzle for me. Then we came back to India after 3 1/2 yrs, and one fine day I realised that I had not got the colorful patches at all for a while, even though I had bumped into things . It was gone. Makes me wonder, is it something to do with location? My knuckles were fine too, even with washing, but last week, when the temperatures dropped to the higher 50s ( it only gets this cool for a few days each year, the rest of the year is hot), my knuckles got bruised just by washing hands! I just can't figure out what's happening! I've been a mild asthmatic all my life, and used inhalers to stay normal, but other than that, I've had no health problems that could explain it.
Hi anonymous from India. It may be that you blood may be too thin. You might check with your physician and do the PTT (blood test to check for clotting), and see if your blood is thick enough.
Thanks CA-Claire, will look it up on the net, and talk to my physician.
I found this product called Working Hands by O'Keefee's. It doesn't stop the red marks but their not as bold and the blood doesn't spread under the skin. Also the marks seem to go away faster.
I decided to check back in on this topic to thank everyone who posts because I have greatly benefited from the suggestions. After reading a number of posts I implemented the following compilation of ways to attack this nasty broken-thin skin-brusing problem on my forearms with 99% success. If I bump a spot enough to tear the skin, I instantly apply pressure and an ice pack which keeps it from spreading. I do apply lotions to my forearms but my thinking was to attack the problem from within the body, so I started taking: BioSil from Amazon(once daily), Co10 300mg from Costco (once daily) and Chlorella from Amazon (once daily). I have been doing this now for about 2 years and have seen the problem all but disappear. None of these methods were original but based on the sharing by others on this site, for which I am most thankful.
MAMA MIA! am I glad I found this forum! ...silly me I thought I was the ONLY one with this issue!! I am 66, active and suddenly all this purple is showing up on my legs and arms(forearms) I used to take COQ10 but stopped... will pick it up again...also very interesting about ALOE VERA...I am using ARNICA which really helps with bruising aspect....I will now try this internally as well....my gut tells me that I need to address this Internally as well as Externally...will report back! oh thank you for this group!
Hi...As to the purple blotches which I've been living with for years, give this a try. My Dermatologist gave me samples of Ammonium Lactate (Cream) 12%/ from Taro Pharmaceuticals, Brampton, Ontario also Hawthorne, NY 10532. Applied faithfully twice a day, it has helped me.
I am currently 65, five years ago when I was age 60 I underwent a hip revision surgery on my right hip due to my old hip implant giving out. The doctor that did the surgery ordered coumadin (warfarin) to keep me from getting any blood clots. I was on coumadin for six weeks and it made me feel so bad they discontinued the drug at my request at the end of six weeks.
I have not taken amy coumadin in the last five years and I suspect that coumadin is the problem. Before I was ever given coumadin I never had any bleeding problems and I never had senile purpura. I have noticed that ever since being given coumadin five years ago that the skin on my hands and my forearms bruise very easily and I bleed a long time after I get a skin tear. Many times the bleeding is under the skin. I have talked with my family doctor and he said the condition is called senile purpura and that there is no treatment for it.
I am going to have my doctor check my platelet count the next time I go I go in to see him. I have a feeling that the coumadin did something to keep my body from producing enough platelets to stop bleeding. I recently had to go to the emergency room because my other artificial hip became dislocated (yes I have two of them). When the doctors examined me before putting my hip back in place, they saw all of the purple bruises on my hands and forearms and they asked me if I was a drug user. I do not shoot up drugs I told them. I informed them that my doctor says my condition is called senile purpura.
Thanks for all of the tips on things to try to maybe help make my skin a little more resilient and cut down on the bruising and bleeding.
I tried to edit my answer to add one more thing and I was unable to get in to the edit section. The thing I wanted to add was this, after taking coumadin five years ago I still stay cold most of my waking hours. I have to dress like it is winter to stay warm.
I went to Amazon.com and entered "arm protection sleeves" and you have choices on what works best for you. My sleeves work great and they are skin color so not so noticeable. I bleed if someone looks at me funny so had to do something. I am 58. Hope this helps.
I too suffer from this problem. I use an asthma inhaler also and I wondered if it could be the reason why I am now having this problem. I've only had the problem during this past year and I am not taking any new medications nor have I changed my diet. I am going to try the Nivea Skin Smoothing Lotion with Q10 and also the Serum. I found the Lotion for $6.99 and if you buy a second item you get it for half price, the reason why I decided to try both the lotion and serum. I got both from Ultra Salon Cosmetics. I also ordered some forearm sleeves on Ebay. Now that it is summer my and I am wearing short sleeves my arms look horrible. I wear fingerless gloves in the winter and long sleeve sweaters or sweatshirts so my arms are protected. It is so embarrassing so I really hope the Nivea cream works. Thanks for all of the great tips and suggestions here.
We found a product for our mom called Adamia Therapeutic Repair Lotion. They showed help with thin skin and skin tears in nursing home people so we tried. Happy to say moms skin tears have stopped and her skin feels and looks SO much better. I would cringe every time her toy poodle would jump up worrying about a skin tear. No more problems from little Bella!
Anyone with thinning skin should immediately start taking internally phytoceramides. Ceramides occur naturally in the matrix of the skin and decrease with age. Dr. Oz did a show on this. Phytoceramides are derived from wheat or rice and can be obtained in capsule form from health food stores, Swanson Vitamins, or Amazon. I?m 64, started to experience thinning skin and didn?t want to go down that path. Phytoceramides build your skin up from within. You can also build it up externally by using a lotion containing it, such as Gold Bond Ultimate Restoring, which has CoQ10 (also mentioned on this forum) as well as ceramides. Within 1-2 months you will see results and have normal looking plump skin again.
I am 57 an was just wondering about my bruises and tears on my arms...I see that taking Prednisone can cause your skin to thin...So if i took Prednisone yrs ago for a lengthy time it could of caused my skin to thin out? It is so embarrassing with my arms looking like someone beats me..I tried the lotion with coq10 but is has not helped...
I went to several different doctors and a Hemotologist suggested it could be the Prednisone that was causing the bloody splotches on my forearms. I quit taking Prednisone 6 weeks ago and my arms are clearing up, finally. I have RA and was on Plaquinel and Enablex which I stopped taking in addition to the Prednisone. My joints are stiffer but I will just have to find a drug without steroids to help.
I have the horrible brown spots even all over n=my hans as well as the arms and wrinkles from the elbow down. I do not take any prescription drugs which include prednizone and all the others. I do , however take vitamins and minerals. Even then, my skin on the mentioned areas are HORRIBLE and i am ashamed of my skin. I will try as many of the suggestions that I can and will stay in touch. Thanks so much for this .
I failed to mention that I have never take cumiden any blood thiners or birth control. I did eat alot of asprin, excedrin, etc for 16 years of horrible cluster migrains. I have great blood tests results. I am so tired of wearing long sleeves in the summer.
I developed the thin skin and very bad bump bruising problem on my hands and forearms from years of too much sun. I'm 58 years old and I was also taking an aspirin a day per Dr's orders and the bruising became worse. I quit the blood thinning aspirin regiment and apply a good coating of DerMend each evening and have seen very positive results. If you do bump your hand or arm apply ice or ice pack to the area for 10 minutes or more right away if you can and the bruise won't be as dark, maybe just a little red and will be gone in just a couple days I find ,and if your quick enough with a longer ice application after it happens you may not bruise at all I learned. But the DerMend lotion and no aspirin blood thinners definitely has made a major improvement for me. I get very few bump bruises now and if I do they are gone allot sooner. The stuff works.
I am thankful for these many suggestions and to know others have this problem. I am a gardener, and here's what I have to do when I'm working in the yard: I put on sport wrist bands, then socks with the toes cut off. After that I wrap the long Ace bandages around my wrists and part of forearms. That is how I have to arm myself - if I ever think I won't as I'm only doing a few small tasks, sure enough I'll have at least one blotch. It's so frustrating. None of my friends have this problem.
I am going to ask my doc if Estrogen cream would help at all.
I, too, have this condition on my arms and my legs, mostly from the knees and elbows down, but some bruising above the elbow, also. I have asked my PCP, but she isn't concerned. Most people have very strong reactions. I've been told I appear to have the skin of a 90 year old. I'm 60, and this has been happening for 2-3 years. I have asthma, so I have to use a steroid inhaler twice a day, and occasional steroid shots and meds when I get sick. I've had asthma for about 15 years, though and only noticed this in the past few years. I always look like I've been through a war zone. I fell in early June, and the skin on my knee literally split wide open. I didn't hit anything sharp, just flat concrete. After three months, im still not healed. I have to carry bandages everywhere I go. I recently went to an endocrinologist to be tested for Cushing's Disease, but that turned out negative. I don't know what to do next. I will certainly try the Avalon lotion if I can. Having a very reactive airway, I can't use anything that has a scent, which nixes most of the lotions. The one I'm currently using, Gold Bond Strength and Resilience for mature skin, has done nothing. It does help that I no longer feel alone with this problem, but I still feel like a freak show. Just wearing my watch or bracelets, carrying my purse, and shopping bags leave marks that last forever. I have more doctor appointments to discuss the steroid inhalers, and other possible causes, but I don't have much hope. Thanks for all the input.
After reading all of these helpful comments, there are some things I will be trying. I'm getting kind of tired of just lightly bumping my skin and either getting a below the skin blood bruise or a bruise above the skin that will not stop bleeding for a week or two. I am only 60 and I can't even imagine what my arms will look like in 20 years-YIKES!! I do not take any of the drugs listed, but I am out in the sun quite a bit in the spring and summer. I also take an anti-seizure medication and will research it to see if it has any effect on the skin. Thanks, everyone, for all the suggestions!
I have the same problem but only on my left lower arm, I can scratch the left and the blotches appear do the same on the right and nothing
I have found that after getting the bruises that putting Corn Huskers Lotion and a hand lotion with Collegen and Elastin really gets rid of the bruise very quickly. In 2 to 3 days the worst of the bruise has reduced to an amazing degree. Before it lasted for a long time. I may try a magnet too as they speed up bruise reduction.
I am 69 years old. My skin is thin all over my body. My mother and father had beautiful skin and I don't understand why my skin is thin, wrinkled and I can actually pull it away from the muscle. I have those scaley spots all over my back, sides and now they are moving to the front. My Doctor will freeze them off but it almost drives you crazy. It etches and the spot will pop up and then the spot will come off. I bet I have 100+ easy. My skin looks awful. I use moisturizer all the time but I am at the end of my rope. You can't wear pretty dresses, blouses or even a swim suit for the way my skin looks. My Doctor said you can't do anything for skin that is thinning but I think there is something out there to help us. I am lucky because the skin on my face has very few wrinkles. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. The cost for removing those scale spots are 10.00 each.
I have been on Prednisone 25 years ago for Crohns dusease, and I have unsightly skin on my arms and legs (not as bad on legs) I have had it for many years now with the embarrassing tears, and bruising, I have always been wearing long sleeves.
However have just started drinking Coconut oil and have noticed the burning has stopped and the blotches are not as red now.
I have found after using CORN husker and lotion with elastin and collagen that even when I get scratched I dont get the red splotches. I am also trying need oil because it is supposed to help the skin.
That is NEEM oil in the last post.
I have the thin skin-red bruise issue too. Although it does not prevent these ugly spots, Swanson Vitamin K Cream applied ASAP after an injury makes them go away in just a few days, rather than months. I've used this for a couple of years now. I am NOT affiliated in any way with Swanson or any other skin treatment whatsoever. This is an honest reply.
I had thin skin in the past. I am 54 now and had been on prednisone for a couple years before stopping that since it sounded like it was not good thing to be on. I had changed my diet to the weightandwellness.com diet and feel that is what fixed the thin skin problem. They recommend a high protein, high fat, lots of vegetables type of diet. My diet is probably 50 of calories from fat, olive oil, coconut oil, meat fat. My forearms have not been so good in years. I don't get the sores, cuts and bruises that I used to. It took 2 to 3 years to recover but I am so much better!
I am so glad to find this forum.. I have had this problem for several years. I always said I had old people skin. I have had since my early 50's though so I was so confused? I have a new puppy and my arms and hands look like I was maimed by a lion but it's just her being a puppy and playing. I can run into the wall and have the ugly bruises for 7-10 days.. but if I run into a corner a get a skin tear. It is awful!! I am going to try some of the suggestions on here and again Thanks for having this forum!
I am 60 and have thin skin with red blotches that bleed from my elbows to my hands for a couple of years. After blood work to rule out medical issues,my family doctor sent me to a dermatologist yesterday. She took one look at me and told me I had thin skin and there was no cure. She told me some of her patients have said a product called Dermamend found at CVS, Walmart etc. helps. I haven't had a chance to try it yet and wondered if anyone has tried this product with any results
Thanks for all the information. My lower arms and mainly my hand's bruise and skin break at the least little touch. It has gotten worse since I have taken Letrozole 2.5 mg for 4 yr for breast cancer rehab. Now I know what to try. Doctors haven't had any answers for me. Thanks for all the help.
I'm 62 and have had the bruising and red blotches from injuries for several years too. I found this site after tearing my skin on the car door today. Just feel fed up!! I'm still healing from bruises and red blotches from carrying a computer tower the other day! My dad had the problem too and eventually got old age leukemia. Don't know if they are related, but I've been taking Coconut oil and a K2/D3 capsule each day. So many good ideas here! My favorite is to apply Co-Q-10 directly, the bio-sil and the Hydrocolloid Dressing and I've ordered Nivea and Avalon creams. A week doesn't go by before my next injury to my arms happens, but I don't want to accept it as an aging problem and just let it go! Thanks for all the helpful suggestions!
I am 67, look 57 & until 2 years ago, I had beautiful skin. I am a lifelong member of weight watcher's and the group leader would frequently have me stand up and show off my very firm & toned skin, including my underarms. I was diagnosed with COPD 2 years ago. (I have never smoked even 1 cigarette). My skin started breaking down shortly after taking all these miserable COPD medications 2 years ago. It is more than "thin skin", I was referred to several specialty physicians. None of them made any progress. The itching was so severe that it resulted in the easy bleeding everyone here has described so completely that my skin was literally open all over my body. A Rhumatoligist had me taking 60 mg. of prednisone every day for 6 weeks. It got so out of control I spent 2 1/2 weeks in the hospital this past Christmas. Even water touching my skin caused such severe bleeding that I had to put a armhole in 1 gallon plastic bags to even take a shower. All of my life I have been health conscious, maintaining an excellent weight, eating right & taking vitamins so believe me when I say I am very upset over this red itching rash, bleeding everywhere I itch even a little. I have tried a zillion things during the last year & 1/2 and so far NOTHING HAS WORKED. Recently I watched a video I got via e-mail saying this skin disaster could be the result gut bacteria. I hate sales pitches, however this video got my attention. I am desperate for an answer. I bought this 30 billion probiotics product. I have only taken it for a few days so it is too soon to say if it works or not. If nothing else, this is giving me some hope that I can control this mess. Out of desperation, I am trying to eat gluten free as much as possible. Honestly, the food tastes a lot better than I expected and I see an improvement resulting in a lot less itching. I am willing to try just about anything to see an improvement. If anyone has found anything that actually removes the ugly dark red blotches all over my skin, please post it here. I was taking coQ10 and stopped but after reading this I am going to start taking it. Thank you for all of your ideas, it helps knowing I am not alone!
I haven't read all the answers, and so perhaps someone has already addressed this. My question is sunscreen plus COQ10 or other lotions that have been recommended. Does anyone have a firm opinion on which to apply first, or if it reallly matters? As a person who frequently goes into the High Sierra Wilderness with lots of mosquitoes, hikers have lots of opinions on whether to do sunscreen or repellant first!
So pleased to find this site and all the suggestions for improving thin skin. I had to take steroids, including occasionally Prednisone, for 18 months after suffering a severe asthma like allergy to a Scotchguard finish in new carpet. I knew from my asthmatic husband's sufferings what was going to happen to my skin and I was only 60 then. Now I am 80 and my skin is just terrible - the slightest bump or prick from a rose thorn causes a huge purple bruise. My legs are like a coloured road map from various injuries and I could weep as I always had really good skin. My GP and skin specialists just say there is nothing can be done but after reading all these experiences I am definitely going to try some of the remedies and hope I can report some improvement eventually. Yesterday I knocked against a wooden magazine rack and tore the skin on my shin which now bears a long dark blue bruise and a torn area of skin held together with Steristrips, all covered with a non-stick dressing and white stretchy bandage holding it in place. What a look for summer!! Can't even buy skin tone elastic bandage anymore which did look a bit better cover than white! People just do not believe you when you explain why such horrendous injuries result from what is a small thing for normal skin. I need to carry a First Aid box round my neck I think.. Thank you everyone for your contributions as it has given me some hope and it is comforting to know so many people have the same problems.
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