Dangerous Senior Drivers

My father 85 has end stage copd with heart issues. He is lucid, but gets bouts of anger and confusion. I reported him to the DVLA.. His GP gently refused to give him a letter. I do feel guilty. I believe I did the right thing to prevent an accident but I am sad and I wish thrre was a better way.

B4blonde - So sorry to hear about your difficulties with your Father. It's possible that your Father is feeling like you might be taking away his control, and that is very scary for people his age. How did you manage to move back in with them? Did they invite you? It's possible that he is locking up the meds so that your Mom can't get them. Are you friends with their insurance agent? Are you insured with the same agent? If the answer to both questions is yes, meet privately with the agent and ask for their help in convincing your Father to stop driving. It sounds like he might be a hazard to the public when he drives. Have you ridden with him as a passenger, without commenting on his driving ability? Do this on a short errand, and see if he really is a hazard on the road. You could check your DMV/BMV website to see if there is a form to request an evaluation of his driving skills. Most states offer this, as this situation has become increasingly common. Most states allow family members to turn in the form anonymously. It is also possible, but not likely, that the accidents were someone else's fault - have you check with the police reports on the accidents? How is your relationship with your Mom? Even people with Alzheimers have times of clarity. Maybe in one of her times of clarity, you could have a family meeting over a meal, or while you are still sitting at the table after a meal. Do you have siblings? Include them in the meeting, but meet with them beforehand to make sure you are all in agreement about the situation. It's easy for us to see that things need to be done differently, or better in our own opinion, but we need to make sure that our parents understand deep down that we are not trying to take things away from them, we are trying to help with the caregiving load. I went through this situation for 6 years with my parents, although they were in an Independent Living apartment, rather than living with me. It takes time, and you have to go very slowly in order to be sure that your Father still feels like he is in charge. Take care - you are in my prayers, I do know how difficult this is. I was lucky, I was my Parent's youngest and had spent lots of time with them in my adult life, so of all my siblings, they trusted me to take good care of them. It was a joy, even when the struggles are taken into account. Looking back, it was the best sacrifice I have ever made in my life to be there for them when they started to lose their freedom.

My mom is 76 w alzheimer & my father us 82. The problem is he refuses to stop driving. I now live w them in their house. He has had several accidents & at least 2 very bad accidents. I have tried to get him to stop by offering to be his chauffer but he becomes very angry violent & tells me to leave the house or he will throw me out. He refuses to let me monitor my moms meds & keeps them under lock & key. I really need help. What can I do?

If you have a sibling acting as trustee who has taken a parent to the doctor for neurological tests and the doctor states no more driving and the sibling continues to allow them to drive, does this sibling have legal liability?

My grandfather had his driving privileges revoked due to poor eye sight. We knew there was a problem but when getting gas one time he accidentally got into the wrong vehicle to try and start it. He has always been very independent. When we visit he will allow us to drive him around but my grandmother will tell us that he is still driving. What resources are there for people in situations like this?

My Father is 75 years old. My Father have mental problems and disability. My Father and I was driving one day. My Father drove on the red light and we almost got heat by another car. My Father was driving the car at that time. I try to ask my Father to stop driving but he won't listen to me. I love my Father very much and I don't want him to get heart. What should I do? Please help?

Widdim. Trying to explain to a person wth dementia is like trying to toilet train a 3 month old baby. Think worst case scenario. If you don't take the car away AND TAKE AWAY the ability for her to purchase another, you could be considered liable for her actions by being aware of what she is doing. Take her into the DMV, get her an ID card instead of a DL, take away the DL, and take away the car. She cannot purchase a car without a DL. Let her insurance agent know she can no longer drive. If she gets angry, with the dementia, it won't be for long. If you're worried about what people think, ask them if they want her driving on their kid or grandkids street. Are you sure she is safe in her home? It may be time for in home care, or for an assisted living 'vacation'. Chances are, she's not eating properly or taking medications properly.

My mother in law has had her drivers license suspended, has I insurance and lives in Canada, she is 95 and lives alone and has dementia. We have disabled her vehicle but she had a mechanic fix it. The police have.been contacted and spoke to her but can only do something if she is caught driving. We need help with this. My husband doesn't want to take car away feels she will just buy another, any ideas? I am afraid she could kill someone pls help! Thanks.

What concerns me if lay person can initiate a medical recall of one's driver license.

My 75-year-old mother was adamant that she keep driving, she didn't want to be a burden to anyone by asking (we would be fine; its in her head though) so I suggested she take a driving course to ensure the safety of others around her, she did it. I took her to 911drivingschool.com/drivers-education-adults and it was the best thing ever, taught by patient police officers. maybe it should be a law that everyone at a certain age retake the course.?

I have an 80-yr.-old friend who lives in California. Her license has been revoked because she is a terrible and dangerous driver. She continues to drive. Can anything be done to get her to stop?

Elderly driveers can be pretty dangerous

I am a productive, very healthy senior who tutors math students, plays violin in a wonderful symphony orchestra and have a pristine d5riving record of 68 years~~~ all came to a screeching halt when the DMV perpetrated a horrible scam and no explanation!!!!!

Sharonsue38 - what a caring person you are! There are ways to report the person to the DMV, who will then bring them in for specialized testing. I live in CA, so I am most familiar with their system - had to use it for both my parents to get them to lose their driving privileges. Go to your state's website for DMV (dmv.ca.gov for CA), and search on driver safety forms. In CA, it's called 'Request for Driver Reexamination'. Fill it out, sign it (unsigned forms are ignored), then they should get on it pretty quickly. My Father's was revoked without needing to come in for testing. My Mother came in for testing, and because of her dementia, she failed. Dad said it was age discrimination, Mom didn't really understand. Once the license is revoked, if you see your neighbor take his car out, call the police and they'll pull him over and arrange to take the car away from him. The DMV will work to keep your identity confidential, but if the records are subpoena'ed, they will have to reveal whom it was that turned the person in. Chances are your neighbor is too far gone to go to that effort. Thank you for thinking of public safety!

he has a lot of medical problems. he falls trying to get in car when he does get he runs into all kinds of things.he pulls out in front of things I will gladly take him any place he needs to go please tell me what to do it is getting dangerios for him to drive .

I am so worried about my neighbor. he hits things with car. he is a very nice guy but his living condition is terrible and he has no family to help

I live right across from ernest long. my other neighbor has went i9n to apt and found him on floor for more than 4hrs. I have found him half under his car from falling on concrete getting trying to get him car I have called 911 and they put him in rehab.when he comes home he gets back into car to drive. when jhe does drive he runs into things backs into things. he also pulls out in front of drivers.i am so afraid he is going to kill himself or someone else. he has no family to help him Please help us to help him. I will gladly take him where he needs tgo go

I always think it's a good idea to create a contract. http://blog.encompassomaha.com/a-contract-to-stop-your-elderly-parent-from-driving/

There is no doubt there are some 'seniors' driving that need to evaluated for their driving skills. A periodic check up would be helpful. However, there are some 'juniors' that should also be evaluated when they are carelessly mishandling their responsibilities behind the wheel of their automobile. What do you recommend for them?

We took my dad and aunt to the doctor for a check up and there was clearly something was wrong with both of them my aunt has vascular dementia and my dad had 3and4levels of dementia so we took their medical papers to DMV they were sent medical papers from DMV but they didn't send them back so both of there license were revoke and then they recieve letters from the insurance company and that was drop as well so we took the car away .

my soon to be 88 yr. young aunt, has totaled Three autos within a 7 month period-----of course it is not her fault and her attitude is-----if it is my timr to go--it's my time to go! absolutely no consideration for others! She is planning to buy another auto and is thrilled that 'Statefarm' will continue to insue her. I see a change in her memory etc. Is there a phone number, in which a family member can call the 'DMV' in confidence?

CA-Claire, thank you for the reply, however my point was that we did not use an "extralegal" method to remove the car. In fact, by having the guardianship, it was the legal method for the action we took. Also, while I mentioned the Conservatorship aspect, it did not play a part in this event, only the guardianship for physical safety and well being. Therefore this event causes no concerns regarding auditors or the county. It's true that with a Conservatorship, you need to keep meticulous records as you are under the direction of a court and subject to auditing on an annual basis. Fortunately Kansas has forms and booklets to help step you thru this process. But again, as it's related to finances, unrelated to this experience. Regarding the Community Service Officer, the desk sergeant suggested in the future we ask for a "Civil Standby" whenever action like this is required. The police will send officers as observers only, but their presence helps with the department having enough information already on scene to avoid any mistakes on their part in communication about the event. The officer there can block any misinformation from entering their system. We will check into the Community Service Officer, may well be the same person/concept. Again, thanks for the reply and concern.

bricon123 - so sorry that you had to use the 'extralegal' method to remove the car. While in your case it was probably best to use the Guardian/Conservatorship, people need to be careful with this, as the county can send auditors to look over the books and such. Any reports they write are public record.... Another way that you could have removed the car, is to have the 'Community Service Officer' come with you while you removed the car. Every department has one.

Background: Dad is diagnosed with mild dementia of ALZ type. Fairly high functioning. Dad is an aggressive driver anyway. He of course, denies any of this. Neurologist finally determined he was a danger (so did we) Reported him to Kansas DMV. They sent a form for Optomologist, Physical Health, Mental Health. Dad aced the vision and physical (two doctor visits) but had to pass the Neurologist. She of course failed him. BUT, the form required Dad to sign off on the HIPPA release to the state! Really? Of course he didnt. He then went to a random Nurse Practitioner who passed him! In the mean time, we (brothers and sister) had filed a petition with the court naming my brother as his temporary guardian/conservitor (you can imagine that all of this has been extreamly stressfull) with hearing for permanant to follow. We reported him to KDMV and in 30 days he has to face a actual examiner. But the point is, with my brothers new found authority, we disabled his car in the mean time. (more stress for Dad and us). Worked for 2 weeks, then he figured it out and had it fixed. So we checked with both our lawyer, and the local police who confirmed that with my brothers status as temp. guardian, he had the authority to remove the car. We did that last night. 1st we called the police dispatch to advise. After we left with the car, Dad called 911. When the officers (who must not have gotten the memo that this was already pre-arranged with the Desk Sargent) got there, Dad of all people, told him we did it, showed the officers his copy of my brothers legal document for G/C and advised him there was nothing they could do for him. For once his bad judgement issue worked in our favor because I was the one driving what could have been a "stolen" vehicle thru town with a APB out for it. If he had not shown the on scene officers that paper and explained the situation himself, I could only imagine me at gun point trying to show them MY copy of that document and explaining it. Actions taken: We asked the Neurologist to call the RPN's supervising doctor to have a "chat" about passing him. (By the way, RPN worked for same practice and had access to Dad's records) We called the Desk Sargent back and he helped us "register" Dad with his department showing his issues and my brothers G/C paperwork. To sum up, in this article, it mentioned caution using "extralegal" removal of a car. I highly recommend that caregivers go beyond the DPOA step and file for Guardian / Conservitor. It's expensive (around $2000) and can be disruptive to the family harmony (vast understatement) but with an uncooperative parent, but it helps protect you while you are protecting your parent.

I am so concerned for my step-dad. He has had dementia for several years, but in the last 6 months, it has progressed. I live far away but talk several times a week to my mom. While we are on the phone, he has needed help to find the bathroom in their house they've lived in for 25 years. For the last 2 years, he has counted on my mom to navigate him anywhere they go. He insists on driving. It makes me worried sick. I have heard of some close calls they've had, of him "turning left" at the light, but into the oncoming traffic! He realizes he gets lost on his own, and doesn't take the car alone anymore, but yesterday he left and was gone for 18 hours! The police found him at 5am, after he ran a red light. They asked if he was lost, and he said no. He said he was going to meet his wife in some town. He was very confused and not making sense. He does not even realize how long he was gone. He doesn't realize this was a big deal. The police told my mom to hide his keys. She is consoling him, saying, it's ok, you can still drive with me by your side. Am I crazy???? I think there is no way he should still be driving if he isn't capable of getting from point a to b (and I'm talking the usual places he's been to for 30 years) on his own. It's not a safe situation to be a driving puppet like that. I can't understand, my usually wise mother not seeing this for what it is. The police said they are going to suggest a drivers test for him. But if the test only consists of them telling him exactly where to go...he may just pass. Can anyone give me some input.

Avoiding to internalize their problems as your own is the difficult part and for me it has been a process. I'm not there yet but I am put a lot of effort so at my age I still can be functional besides the purpose of only serving others to the detrimental aspects of having a life, using any talents, or being allowed to have joy. I have continually remind myself, I'll do my part, if they don't want to do theirs (husband or relatives) then....let the boat sink, that's their choice. EAsier said than done, but I'm trying to let go, hope I'll get there.

The tough line between safety & independence is a tough one for families in many different circumstances. Driving being one of the toughest ones, and of course the one that can most affect other people which makes it a bit different. But, I thought this article on that general topic might be helpful to some as well: http://www.agingwisely.com/hedging-your-bets-aging-in-place-and-taking-risks-with-independence/ (some ways families can prepare/things they can do when torn between worries about an aging loved one and that loved one's desire to keep things status quo).

This is a bit of a hard line to walk... My dad had to stop driving in his early seventies, soon after being diagnosed with Parkinson's. He did it on his own with little argument, thank goodness! But for years before his diagnosis he was noticeably less dependable of a driver than he had been and would not admit it. On the other hand my grandpa (on mom's side) lived to be 96 and drove up until the last couple years of his life. He did just fine, in fact better than a lot of drivers many years younger. That's what I mean about it being a hard line to walk because age is obviously not the only factor. A number of years ago I was driving down Main St in Mesa, AZ when two or three cars in front of me suddenly stopped. I slammed on my brakes barely avoiding a collision as did several cars behind me. The driver in front of me looked back and shrugged as if he didn't know what had happened. Shortly we saw what had happened. An older man, my guess would be well into his seventies at least, was tooling down the wrong side of the street in the wrong direction! He apparently lived in a retirement community the group of vehicles was just passing, and the entrance gate is about halfway between two lights about a mile apart. Apparently he did not want to go down to the next light and turn around or go in a side entrance, so he just decided to go about half a mile in the wrong direction to go in the front entrance. He just turned in as if nothing had happened, and I don't know if he was even aware of the near disaster he caused! I had my then ten year old nephew in the car with me and was furious, but didn't get a good enough look at the car to do much about it. Another time, still in Mesa, I was driving down Main Street but further west when I stopped at a light. Sitting at the light on the other side of the street was an older driver, maybe eighty ish or older, facing in the wrong direction waving at other drivers as they went past. Thank God the light changed and people let him go safely through the intersection, but I didn't get a license plate number or anything and don't know if anything was reported or if anything else happened. Lord knows older drivers aren't the only ones with problems, but so few want to admit they have a problem and few want to challenge them on it!

All the suggestions in this article are great, however most of these things only work in a perfect world. In the end, families end up having to do things to prevent the risk of an impaired senior driving, that they might not do if there were no impairment. It took a collaboration with myself, my parents' physicians, AND a cooperative manager at the DMV to get both my parent's licenses pulled at age 89, after over 2 years off efforts - hard efforts, lots of phone calls, faxes, emails, conversations, and legal advice. Don't rely on the reporting laws of the states helping you, my state has that law, and both the primary care provider and the neurologist that diagnosed them both with AD had no idea what I was talking about when I asked them to comply with the law, giving them section, code, and all. It takes a lot of work, and some difficult decisions, but in the end, it is best for all concerned - including public safety.

As a paralegal and having senior parents, I believe it should be mandatory that after a certain age, the DMV should randomly send letters notifying senior driviers that they MUST take a driver's monitoring test. There also should be limited restrictions when senior drivers can drive (i.e., not during rush hour). They have restrictions for teens with junior licenses; therefore, they should do it to seniors. Anyone who is fortunate to reach the age of 70 plus, should be periodically tested, especially if they receive frequent tickets or accidents. For example, my aunt has had so many accidents, that she had a difficult time obtaining car insurance! The problem: she refused to keep up with her eye exams and use glasses when driving! The rationale is bizaare! Her children have done everything in their power (including hiding her keys) to keep her off the road. If she was being monitored by the DMV, it might put a bit more fear in her and it would take the burden off her children.

Jane-You're right, sometimes all you can do it let it play out. Sometimes people are reluctant to intervene, though it does sound like the bank should have reported concerns. You may be able to talk to a manager there and express that concern--they may not really be able to talk to you/share information, but you can at least say what you are concerned about and that you are surprised they aren't more concerned. We're lucky in our area to have a couple police officers within departments that are assigned to deal with seniors--someone like that would be a great resource. Your dept. may not have that but may have some officers trained in dealing with mental illness (we have a special program that some go through in FL)--those may be other resources, even if just to keep at hand in case anything additional plays out... It's hard when you see these things happening, but it sounds like it is beyond your control at this point.

Shannon, my husband and I did try to talk to his brothers. Initially they were all in agreement that we need to start evaluating the situation. Then suddenly the one brother who is power of attorney changed his mind and the other brother followed suit. My husband and I do not understand why they are acting this way. Just recently my husband had a conversation with his mother and she was again having delusions about a neighbor "stealing from her" (2 tablespoons of cocoa, 2 potatoes, vegetables, an egg, and towels). She called police and reported her neighbor for theft! She then sent my husband a letter and stated that the neighbor stole her checkbook, so she cancelled all checks written! She found the checkbook in her purse, so of course the lady picked her lock and put it back! So actually she stopped payment on checks she herself wrote and she forgot! Then she went on to say the bank called her about payments not being made on a loan, and she accused neighbor of getting a loan and using her name on it, then not making the payments. I recall when she started really showing signs of dementia she had gotten this loan because she had accumulated $20,000 in debt on credit cards etc. She has obviously forgotten, so she told the bank she didn't take out that loan. Wonder why bank isn't calling adult protective services considering what is occuring now? The police (I spoke to them) are also aware that she is having "mental issues", but they have not reported it either. She has called them many, many times and even sent police chief letters about theft and homeless people sleeping in her car! She is ruining herself financially, and she's driving neighbors nuts with accusations all the time. I pretty much have given up on getting her some help. The sons, DMV, doctor, police,and bank could help this situation but they apparently don't choose to. We will have to just sit back and let things play out I suppose. I just hope with all my heart nothing tragic happens to her or someone else because issues aren't being addressed. I gave it my best.

Jane-That sounds like a bad response from the DMV--I don't know your state specifics, but in Florida anyone can report regardless of being related or not. It starts a medical review process. Now, unfortunately if the doctor has an attitude of "everything's fine" they may not fill out the resulting paperwork accurately (I have seen this before with an older doc who had the patient since beginning of his practice-did not want to offend him and I think saw him as an equal and didn't want to admit that it may be time for this.). It sounds like a situation in need of change (and more issues going on then just driving). An indep. eval as someone mentioned is a good idea and a geriatric care manager may also be a good resource and have creative solutions. All of this could be a challenge with no cooperation from closer family members, so it may be best to work on them. Another idea: see if her son will consult (she doesn't necc. need to be involved to start) with a geriatric care manager (perhaps a conference with both of you and any other family involved) to discuss what you've seen, get professional input and ideas. May help to have someone besides you talk to him and emphasize the dangers. It is hard for any of us to see clearly sometimes when it comes to our close loved ones. You can find local care managers at www.caremanager.org-ask them about the experience, philosophy, successes with this issue. I also wanted to share this handout with you guys: http://www.agingwisely.com/wp-content/handouts2011/TakingAwayKeys.pdf

Forget the guilt and the blame. There comes a time when people become incapable for driving... for their own safety and the safety of the whole community, report them. Do everything you can under the law to get them off the roads. If that doesn't work, take the keys, disable the ignition, take the car to a public storage facility. Just do what needs to be done! In 2003, an 84 year old driver drove his car at high speed into a farmers' market in downtown Santa Monica. Ten people, including a baby, were killed and over 50 were injured. Don't let something like that happen.

Update since my last post. Mother in law issues became a family battle basically, and my husbands brothers stopped contact with us. Just this past week they let my husband know they were all getting together at their moms house. She is STILL driving sad to say, and my husband said there is visible damage to fence in the driveway. Also she is getting worse as far as behaviors. Some of my brother in laws smoke, so when they went outside to do so, she forgot and kept locking them out! She filed a police report in the last 6 to 8 weeks also about a burglary at her home. Blamed the neighbor for breaking in and stealing her towels. She found the towels however (she had forgotten where she stashed them), but was angry and told her sons that the neighbor broke back in and put them back. My husband and I just had to distance ourselves from the situation since son that is power of attorney refuses to act. I hope we do not have to experience what some of the other posters have said about car accidents and folks losing their lives.

MY HUSBAND IS A GOOD DRIVER, BUT HE HAS TROUBLE REMEMBERING STREETS AND LOCATIONS. I ALWAYS ACCOMPANY HIM SO I CAN GIVE DIRECTIONS. HOWEVER, HE SOMETIMES SEEMS TO RESENT THE FACT THAT I AM GIVING DIRECTIONS, AS IF I AM BEING BOSSY.

I really appreciated the information about filing an unsafe driver report. Honestly, if my grandmother can pass an on road test with an officer, then I would feel much better about her driving. I'm so sure that my grandfather couldn't pass such a test due to his dementia, it's good to know I have a legal means of getting him to stop driving.

I have tried every one of these measures, and my mother in law still drives. Her other sons refuse to "upset her" by having her evaluated at the drivers license bureau, or the doctors office. I spoke to her doctor, and he didn't want to be the "bad guy", so he did absolutely nothing, and I sent a dangerous driver form to the state department of motor vehicles and told them she had hit a parked car in a lot, tore off the front end, dragged it behind her, but was totally unaware until police were waiting outside the store for her. She is diabetic, and denies it saying doctor is in a conspiracy, she is on high blood pressure meds, and against doctor advice she takes on average 30 different "herbs" and supplements, she has fallen several times and once required surgery to repair an arm, she has had a quad bypass, she writes letters to police chief saying there are homeless people sleeping in her car, she tells police family members are stealing lotion, Bible bookmarks, eye exercise video tapes, puts spike nails sharp side up around fence perimeter because she swore people were stealing her tomatoes...but the city made her have them removed. She has hit the fence dividing her driveway from the neighbors yard (the neighbor does not have a driveway, so I know she did it.) She orders stuff and uses her credit card, then forgets and calls credit card company when item arrives to her house, and claims identity theft. She had an episode about 4 or 5 years ago where she was smelling carbon monoxide in her house, our house, another house, a few cars she was in, and we tried to explain you can't smell that, it is odorless. She had furnace replaced and the chimney liner too. Still smelled stuff that was not there and called 911, gas company repeatedly even after being assured house was safe. She changed chimney liner 2 more times in 3 months at a large expense she can't afford. She is ruining herself financially from home shopping, scams from magazines about "cancer cures" etc. She is on a fixed income, has no savings, and her house it worth nothing, and now she owes a mortgage on it from credit card debts. The department of motor vehicles refused to do anything about my report, and their excuse was this...I was not a close enough relative...just her daughter in law, even though I was doing a lot of the hands on care! Thanks for nothing folks. Any other ideas? I am very worried she will harm others from her terrible driving, or herself. The other relatives refuse to pull their heads out of the sand, and demand she just be left living alone with nobody checking on her at all.

You did not mention the option of a clinical driving evaluation performed by occupational therapist. These evaluations provide objective data for accident risk. Most family members are thankful for the evaluation and the reasoning behind why restrictions or recommendations to retire from driving are made. Contact ADED website to find an driving program near you. Duke Driving Program

My mother was 81 and I was taking her to her hair appointments etc. One morning, she wanted to go to the grocery store that she had been going to for 30 years. She has a clean record and just had her license renewed. I got a phone call about 15 minutes after I had last talked to her. She was killed pulling out of the road my parents lived on for 30 years. It was the hardest thing I have ever been through. The accident was her fault..the other driver was fine, he was in a monster truck. Do your best to keep them from driving!! I thank God she did not hurt anyone else, that would have been unbearable. My dad is still driving but he is VERY alert and is more like a much younger man. It is not age as much as thier physical and mental health.

My father's driven like a maniac his whole life. Now he's finally slowing down a bit!

I am so not looking forward to the day I might have to suggest to my mother that she not drive. She's so independent now and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Very helpful. Now we need an article to deal with the guilt and possibly the blame of taking the driving privileges away.