I Watched my Daddy Die ..... Did We Do the Right Thing?
OMG .... At 2:45 a.m. one night a year ago my mother called saying, "I think Daddy is dying." He was 80. He had had several strokes over the course of 15 or 20 years and had had a pacemaker implanted the year prior, so strokes and heart problems were not new to him. Additionally, he had said for the previous several days he didn't feel well, but wasn't very specific about his problem. He said he had a headache that seemed to go from his head down the pacemaker wire to his heart. (I found this out AFTER he passed. Why he didn't go to a doctor or why my mother didn't MAKE him go is beyond me)
My husband and I FLEW to their home and arrived in 10 minutes. Dad was in bed, breathing extremely slowly ... what I would call a death rattle. He wasn't moving except for the very slow, shallow breathing. He was very cold and clammy to the touch and his fingers were turning blue. His pupils were dilated and fixed.
Although my Dad had whatever paper necessary ~ the No Rescussitation ~ my husband called 911 anyway. We tried to detain the ambulance crew long enough for Dad to depart ... but they proceeded to perform an electrocadiogram, blood pressure, etc. During the ordeal and upsetment I no longer remember if he had a pulse or not or what the ekg showed .... I do know he finally stopped breathing while the EMTs were performing their duties.
Has anyone been with a dying person as far "gone" as my Dad? My husband, mother, and I all felt Dad was probably already brain dead, being that there was quite a long time between inhale/exhale and because he was so cold and blue.
Would CPR have done any good, do you think? I've had a terrible time coming to terms with this, though at the time it seemed very obvious he was definitely past the point of no return.
I Watched my Daddy Die ..... Did We Do the Right Thing?
OMG .... At 2:45 a.m. one night a year ago my mother called saying, "I think Daddy is dying." He was 80. He had had several strokes over the course of 15 or 20 years and had had a pacemaker implanted the year prior, so strokes and heart problems were not new to him. Additionally, he had said for the previous several days he didn't feel well, but wasn't very specific about his problem. He said he had a headache that seemed to go from his head down the pacemaker wire to his heart. (I found this out AFTER he passed. Why he didn't go to a doctor or why my mother didn't MAKE him go is beyond me)
My husband and I FLEW to their home and arrived in 10 minutes. Dad was in bed, breathing extremely slowly ... what I would call a death rattle. He wasn't moving except for the very slow, shallow breathing. He was very cold and clammy to the touch and his fingers were turning blue. His pupils were dilated and fixed.
Although my Dad had whatever paper necessary ~ the No Rescussitation ~ my husband called 911 anyway. We tried to detain the ambulance crew long enough for Dad to depart ... but they proceeded to perform an electrocadiogram, blood pressure, etc. During the ordeal and upsetment I no longer remember if he had a pulse or not or what the ekg showed .... I do know he finally stopped breathing while the EMTs were performing their duties.
Has anyone been with a dying person as far "gone" as my Dad? My husband, mother, and I all felt Dad was probably already brain dead, being that there was quite a long time between inhale/exhale and because he was so cold and blue.
Would CPR have done any good, do you think? I've had a terrible time coming to terms with this, though at the time it seemed very obvious he was definitely past the point of no return.
I do so hope someone will respond .... Many thanks in advance .....
I do so hope someone will respond .... Many thanks in advance .....
i'm so sorry you lost your Dad. but i'm so glad you were there for him in his dying. and he would have known it too.
and you did an even bigger thing. you honored his wishes for himself. you absolutely did the right thing. and it was what your father had wanted too. he would never have filled in those papers otherwise. so you know you did what he wanted.
i'm a caregiver of elders and i've sat with a number of my folks as they died. your Dad's passing seems a very classic account of dying. blue and cold and that kind of breathing he was doing is the absolute description of death coming.
actually people begin to lose heat and circulation from their feet, as they die, and it travels up the body, so your Dad was definitely dying. i doubt anything could have prevented it.
also, from what you say, this was a man who had suffered a lot in his last years and undoubtedly didn't want to go through any more medical ordeals. you totally did the right thing, even though it was hard and scary for you.
don't feel you could have somehow saved him. death is the only guaranteed thing we all do, after being born. but often our first experience is losing a parent. so it's extra big. of course you miss him. and of course you worry and ask yourself, could i have done more. but no, you could not have done more.
the great thing you did was -- you followed your instinct. you respected his wishes, you shared that precious thing that family has always done for each other -- you stayed beside your loved one while the spirit passed from the body. a father couldn't ask for more from a beloved daughter.
you bravely walked all the way to the gates of death with him, so he was not alone. so now it's time to grieve for him. and you are.
you did everything right.
i'm so sorry you lost your Dad. but i'm so glad you were there for him in his dying. and he would have known it too.
and you did an even bigger thing. you honored his wishes for himself. you absolutely did the right thing. and it was what your father had wanted too. he would never have filled in those papers otherwise. so you know you did what he wanted.
i'm a caregiver of elders and i've sat with a number of my folks as they died. your Dad's passing seems a very classic account of dying. blue and cold and that kind of breathing he was doing is the absolute description of death coming.
actually people begin to lose heat and circulation from their feet, as they die, and it travels up the body, so your Dad was definitely dying. i doubt anything could have prevented it.
also, from what you say, this was a man who had suffered a lot in his last years and undoubtedly didn't want to go through any more medical ordeals. you totally did the right thing, even though it was hard and scary for you.
don't feel you could have somehow saved him. death is the only guaranteed thing we all do, after being born. but often our first experience is losing a parent. so it's extra big. of course you miss him. and of course you worry and ask yourself, could i have done more. but no, you could not have done more.
the great thing you did was -- you followed your instinct. you respected his wishes, you shared that precious thing that family has always done for each other -- you stayed beside your loved one while the spirit passed from the body. a father couldn't ask for more from a beloved daughter.
you bravely walked all the way to the gates of death with him, so he was not alone. so now it's time to grieve for him. and you are.
you did everything right.
I am very sorry for your loss. Considering the fact that your Dad had a "Do Not Resusitate" you made the right choice. Had the Paramedics been able to resusitate him your Dad would have ended up in the hospital on a ventilator and other equipment. He may have lasted longer but he would have suffered. Also he probably would have suffered some loss of brain function. Letting him go in peace with his family around him was a gift. Remember him for the way he lived.
I am very sorry for your loss. Considering the fact that your Dad had a "Do Not Resusitate" you made the right choice. Had the Paramedics been able to resusitate him your Dad would have ended up in the hospital on a ventilator and other equipment. He may have lasted longer but he would have suffered. Also he probably would have suffered some loss of brain function. Letting him go in peace with his family around him was a gift. Remember him for the way he lived.
Dear dear person -- I was with my father when he died and write to you from this perspective -- there are no rules in these very difficult situations -- as you describe it, CPR or any other end of life medical intervention would have not done any good -- your father was dying and past a point of no return -- hence the death rattle breathing and other symptoms -- I am certain as a family you all did the very best you could -- try and dispel blame and guilt -- they are very human emotions but useless at this stage of life. There are no rules -- death is not pretty -- it is ugly and hard to bear. It is never easy to lose someone you love -- no matter their age or circumstance. My condolences to you and your family -- and a wish that you find peace in your memories and with one another.
Dear dear person -- I was with my father when he died and write to you from this perspective -- there are no rules in these very difficult situations -- as you describe it, CPR or any other end of life medical intervention would have not done any good -- your father was dying and past a point of no return -- hence the death rattle breathing and other symptoms -- I am certain as a family you all did the very best you could -- try and dispel blame and guilt -- they are very human emotions but useless at this stage of life. There are no rules -- death is not pretty -- it is ugly and hard to bear. It is never easy to lose someone you love -- no matter their age or circumstance. My condolences to you and your family -- and a wish that you find peace in your memories and with one another.
Dear Frena and CBin ~ Thank you, THANK YOU so VERY much for your kind and thoughtful words. Though I'm weeping, I feel so much better having validation we did the "right" thing. Actually, it seemed like the ONLY thing.
Frena ~ I appreciate your explanation of the process of dying. It has helped ENORMOUSLY. I have been unable to find much about it on the web, though I've tried.
THANK YOU.
Dear Frena and CBin ~ Thank you, THANK YOU so VERY much for your kind and thoughtful words. Though I'm weeping, I feel so much better having validation we did the "right" thing. Actually, it seemed like the ONLY thing.
Frena ~ I appreciate your explanation of the process of dying. It has helped ENORMOUSLY. I have been unable to find much about it on the web, though I've tried.
THANK YOU.
THANK YOU, Alexandra.
When no one responded, I was beginning to feel that what we did was so hateful no one would or could respond.
This has been doubly awful because I am an only "child" and my mother no longer speaks to me. Too long to get into ... So, I feel I lost BOTH my parents and that I'm a horrible, hateful person.
These kind responses have me in tears of thankfulness and gratitude.
THANK YOU.
THANK YOU, Alexandra.
When no one responded, I was beginning to feel that what we did was so hateful no one would or could respond.
This has been doubly awful because I am an only "child" and my mother no longer speaks to me. Too long to get into ... So, I feel I lost BOTH my parents and that I'm a horrible, hateful person.
These kind responses have me in tears of thankfulness and gratitude.
THANK YOU.
Frena ~ Do you REALLY think he knew I was there?
Frena ~ Do you REALLY think he knew I was there?
Dear Susan -- what you did was the right thing to do -- surely your mother knows about your dad's DNR -- she is more than likely just dealing with her own grief in her own way....and this can often look very strange from the outside. I am an only child too. When my Dad died, I was angry at my Mom because he was not here anymore. Silly but real. All anyone can do in the first year of a primal death (i.e. losing a parent) is, in my experience, take deep breaths and just try to get thru each day. It will be hard and for the first year you will feel like you are in a fog of sorts. Grief is a very difficult emotion to get a handle on. You did the right thing. You did the human thing. Yes your father knew you were there. And I'll bet anything, he was very grateful to you. Try and be as kind to yourself as you possibly can. Everything and everyone else will fall into place... slowly. Heal first then you can worry about the others around you. Take good care. PS to Frena and CBin -- your posts are beautiful.
Dear Susan -- what you did was the right thing to do -- surely your mother knows about your dad's DNR -- she is more than likely just dealing with her own grief in her own way....and this can often look very strange from the outside. I am an only child too. When my Dad died, I was angry at my Mom because he was not here anymore. Silly but real. All anyone can do in the first year of a primal death (i.e. losing a parent) is, in my experience, take deep breaths and just try to get thru each day. It will be hard and for the first year you will feel like you are in a fog of sorts. Grief is a very difficult emotion to get a handle on. You did the right thing. You did the human thing. Yes your father knew you were there. And I'll bet anything, he was very grateful to you. Try and be as kind to yourself as you possibly can. Everything and everyone else will fall into place... slowly. Heal first then you can worry about the others around you. Take good care. PS to Frena and CBin -- your posts are beautiful.
I cannot thank you all ~ Alexandra, CBin and Frena~ enough for your compassion and empathy. I am sorry for your losses, as well. It is my hope we call heal as well and quickly as we are able.
Love, Susan
I cannot thank you all ~ Alexandra, CBin and Frena~ enough for your compassion and empathy. I am sorry for your losses, as well. It is my hope we call heal as well and quickly as we are able.
Love, Susan
Hello. I was with my older brother when he passed away last year in February. He was terminally ill but only 55 years old. Yes, I do believe our loved ones know we are with them at their time of passing. I have read the last sense to go is our hearing. Therefore, I believe he could hear me talking to him and praying for him. I believe your Dad knew you were with him as well. And as awful of an experience it can be to witness a loved one dieing, please find comfort in knowing that it sounds like your Dad was very peaceful when he left this life. I think it's just human nature for us to wonder if we did all we could or if we did the right thing. I struggle still today but when I really think about the situation I know that my brother would not have had quality of life had he been kept here. So please stop beating yourself up. And whatever the circumstances, please reach out to your Mom, take the first step and ya'll get to talking again. Peace and blessings to you and your family.
Hello. I was with my older brother when he passed away last year in February. He was terminally ill but only 55 years old. Yes, I do believe our loved ones know we are with them at their time of passing. I have read the last sense to go is our hearing. Therefore, I believe he could hear me talking to him and praying for him. I believe your Dad knew you were with him as well. And as awful of an experience it can be to witness a loved one dieing, please find comfort in knowing that it sounds like your Dad was very peaceful when he left this life. I think it's just human nature for us to wonder if we did all we could or if we did the right thing. I struggle still today but when I really think about the situation I know that my brother would not have had quality of life had he been kept here. So please stop beating yourself up. And whatever the circumstances, please reach out to your Mom, take the first step and ya'll get to talking again. Peace and blessings to you and your family.
Yes, i do think so. there have been a lot of studies of the dying and people in comas, plus some traditional teachings that seem to support the same information.
1 the sense of hearing is the last to go. so people can hear long after they look as if they're way beyond that;
2.remember all those near-death experiences that get written about? in which patients on the operating table experienced stopped heart and temporary death. yet they can later report everything said and what they saw, apparently accurately. the main thing I conclude from all that is apparent full consciousness is not the only way to know stuff!
3.humans sense and experience in ways we underrate in everyday life (or plain don't believe in).
and think about those prayer healing group studies ion which people who don't know (and maybe wouldn't care) they were being prayed for to heal, do actually heal better and quicker than people who weren't being prayed for.
so it seems obvious from scientific studies that human awarenesses spread way beyond our own awareness. and you were right there beside him.
therefore, YES. youbetcha!
am i nuts? no, just practical. this is stuff that scientists study and families report.
Best wishes, Frena
Frena Gray-Davidson, Alzheimer's educator and author of "Alzheimer's 911: Help, Hope and Healing for Caregivers."
Yes, i do think so. there have been a lot of studies of the dying and people in comas, plus some traditional teachings that seem to support the same information.
1 the sense of hearing is the last to go. so people can hear long after they look as if they're way beyond that;
2.remember all those near-death experiences that get written about? in which patients on the operating table experienced stopped heart and temporary death. yet they can later report everything said and what they saw, apparently accurately. the main thing I conclude from all that is apparent full consciousness is not the only way to know stuff!
3.humans sense and experience in ways we underrate in everyday life (or plain don't believe in).
and think about those prayer healing group studies ion which people who don't know (and maybe wouldn't care) they were being prayed for to heal, do actually heal better and quicker than people who weren't being prayed for.
so it seems obvious from scientific studies that human awarenesses spread way beyond our own awareness. and you were right there beside him.
therefore, YES. youbetcha!
am i nuts? no, just practical. this is stuff that scientists study and families report.
Best wishes, Frena
Frena Gray-Davidson, Alzheimer's educator and author of "Alzheimer's 911: Help, Hope and Healing for Caregivers."
From what I see of families, your Mom's reaction may not have the message in it that you think right now. (Remember, you just stopped thinking we all hated you!!) we really don't know what's bothering people till they tell us, especially when it's deep stuff. Maybe she wants to howl and doesn't know how to do it. maybe she's really mad at your Dad, as Alexandra says, and feels it would be rude to say so. keep the doors open to your Mom and kind of behave as you would if she were speaking to you.
she's undoubtedly very shocky right now. plus, whatever else. so, you keep opening that door and being kind, even if she slams it in your face. lots of people get thrown off-kilter by death and just can't figure themselves out for a while. i would put a good $50 bill on her being afraid she would break down and weep in front of you.
remember, in this society, death is still seen as the ultimate self-betrayal. we've lost the rituals (wear black for a year, tear out hair while shrieking, throw self on husband's funeral pyre), so everyone gets weird for a while.
except you. you're crying. that's good. you're a smart woman. susan dear
From what I see of families, your Mom's reaction may not have the message in it that you think right now. (Remember, you just stopped thinking we all hated you!!) we really don't know what's bothering people till they tell us, especially when it's deep stuff. Maybe she wants to howl and doesn't know how to do it. maybe she's really mad at your Dad, as Alexandra says, and feels it would be rude to say so. keep the doors open to your Mom and kind of behave as you would if she were speaking to you.
she's undoubtedly very shocky right now. plus, whatever else. so, you keep opening that door and being kind, even if she slams it in your face. lots of people get thrown off-kilter by death and just can't figure themselves out for a while. i would put a good $50 bill on her being afraid she would break down and weep in front of you.
remember, in this society, death is still seen as the ultimate self-betrayal. we've lost the rituals (wear black for a year, tear out hair while shrieking, throw self on husband's funeral pyre), so everyone gets weird for a while.
except you. you're crying. that's good. you're a smart woman. susan dear
Dear Frena and Others ~ I'm a bit pressed for time at this minute, but want to let you all know I appreciate your thoughts and writing. Thank you. The issue with my mother is very complex. I have posted it on another board here somewhere ... She's 80 years old, was in a major auto accident in May that could have killed her. She has a broken pelvis and has early-mid stage dementia. She swears up hill and down all I want is her money ~ this after 30 years of other emotional abuse. I just couldn't take it anymore and I snapped. I have to run, but I'll be back soon to talk more. I don't recall the title of my "Mother" thread .... I think I posted under "relationships" ... same day as I posted about my Dad. Love to all ~
Dear Frena and Others ~ I'm a bit pressed for time at this minute, but want to let you all know I appreciate your thoughts and writing. Thank you. The issue with my mother is very complex. I have posted it on another board here somewhere ... She's 80 years old, was in a major auto accident in May that could have killed her. She has a broken pelvis and has early-mid stage dementia. She swears up hill and down all I want is her money ~ this after 30 years of other emotional abuse. I just couldn't take it anymore and I snapped. I have to run, but I'll be back soon to talk more. I don't recall the title of my "Mother" thread .... I think I posted under "relationships" ... same day as I posted about my Dad. Love to all ~
I'm so sorry for your loss and the grief you're experiencing now. You respected what your father wanted and that's what is most important. CPR on the terminally ill can be cruel and it would have only prolonged his suffering. I've worked in hospice and read enough books that I firmly believe that even after a patient loses consciousness, they can still hear and experience what is going on around them, but with a peace and a supernatural knowledge of their situation that the rest of us just don't understand. I saw that you had tried to research the dying process to see what symptoms might have fit your father's passing. Try searching the 5 phases of active dying or searching for active dying specifically. It will tell you more in depth of the preparations your body makes before it shuts down and it will help you understand better what you saw in your dad in his final time also. I hope this helps! I bet, even if your dad was not on hospice, that a local hospice company in your area has a bereavement group that you and/or your family can become involved in that will help you work through your grief too.
I'm so sorry for your loss and the grief you're experiencing now. You respected what your father wanted and that's what is most important. CPR on the terminally ill can be cruel and it would have only prolonged his suffering. I've worked in hospice and read enough books that I firmly believe that even after a patient loses consciousness, they can still hear and experience what is going on around them, but with a peace and a supernatural knowledge of their situation that the rest of us just don't understand. I saw that you had tried to research the dying process to see what symptoms might have fit your father's passing. Try searching the 5 phases of active dying or searching for active dying specifically. It will tell you more in depth of the preparations your body makes before it shuts down and it will help you understand better what you saw in your dad in his final time also. I hope this helps! I bet, even if your dad was not on hospice, that a local hospice company in your area has a bereavement group that you and/or your family can become involved in that will help you work through your grief too.
Find peace in your heart. As others have said - you followed the wishes of your father and that was the right thing to do. Hugs.
Find peace in your heart. As others have said - you followed the wishes of your father and that was the right thing to do. Hugs.
Here it is:
http://www.caring.com/forums/relationship-forum/frustrated-beyond-belief-with-my-80-year-old-mother-with-mid-dementia
I'll be back ~~~~
((((( Hugs)))))) Susan
Here it is:
http://www.caring.com/forums/relationship-forum/frustrated-beyond-belief-with-my-80-year-old-mother-with-mid-dementia
I'll be back ~~~~
((((( Hugs)))))) Susan
These questions always will remain. I lost my mother in January this year. I was able to take her to hospital, but she continued to slip away.
Your father went peacefully, he was blessed. You were with him that is so good for him.
Please don't feel too bad. It is very difficult to let a loved one go. It was his time to go. May God bless you and give you the strength to bear the loss.
These questions always will remain. I lost my mother in January this year. I was able to take her to hospital, but she continued to slip away.
Your father went peacefully, he was blessed. You were with him that is so good for him.
Please don't feel too bad. It is very difficult to let a loved one go. It was his time to go. May God bless you and give you the strength to bear the loss.
You absolutely did the right thing. Staying with your father while he died. I have stayed with a person for a few days at their death and my mother too, and its the right thing to do. It should help you too with the loss. Most people benefit from that, and don't let someone whip the body away to a funeral home. Get some dry ice and place it under the organ area of the body and you can take care of your loved one for up to three days. You never need use a funeral home. You can transport the body yourself to the cemetery or crematorium.
You absolutely did the right thing. Staying with your father while he died. I have stayed with a person for a few days at their death and my mother too, and its the right thing to do. It should help you too with the loss. Most people benefit from that, and don't let someone whip the body away to a funeral home. Get some dry ice and place it under the organ area of the body and you can take care of your loved one for up to three days. You never need use a funeral home. You can transport the body yourself to the cemetery or crematorium.
If you have an opportunity to help someone else make this decision, I would strongly recommend that you advise them to keep their loved one right where they are and let the die in their own surroundings, with the people they know, the smells they know and the sounds they know. When the end is close and all life saving ideas have concluded and simply pain control is whats left to do, tell the person that its ok to go. That you will be all right, all the family will be all right. Many dying people hold on because they feel they are still needed by someone close to them, like with my mother and me. This apparently helps them to pass over.
If you have an opportunity to help someone else make this decision, I would strongly recommend that you advise them to keep their loved one right where they are and let the die in their own surroundings, with the people they know, the smells they know and the sounds they know. When the end is close and all life saving ideas have concluded and simply pain control is whats left to do, tell the person that its ok to go. That you will be all right, all the family will be all right. Many dying people hold on because they feel they are still needed by someone close to them, like with my mother and me. This apparently helps them to pass over.
Susan, I'm so sorry for your loss. My mother passed away in May, and like you with your father, I was with my mom when she passed. I have had the same questions as you... did we do the right thing, did she know we were there? I also researched online and found nothing about the final hours of life.
I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate you posting your questions and concerns. In doing so you have helped me come to terms with last hours of my mother's life. Thank you, Ellie
Susan, I'm so sorry for your loss. My mother passed away in May, and like you with your father, I was with my mom when she passed. I have had the same questions as you... did we do the right thing, did she know we were there? I also researched online and found nothing about the final hours of life.
I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate you posting your questions and concerns. In doing so you have helped me come to terms with last hours of my mother's life. Thank you, Ellie
for everyone, here are 3 possible useful sites which include lots of info, helpful and honest personal stories, friendly guidelines to get you through the whole difficult process of dying of family members and friends. very uplifting too, not dismal.
2.http://dying.about.com
3.http://www.dyingwell.org
for everyone, here are 3 possible useful sites which include lots of info, helpful and honest personal stories, friendly guidelines to get you through the whole difficult process of dying of family members and friends. very uplifting too, not dismal.
2.http://dying.about.com
3.http://www.dyingwell.org