Please help. I just don't know what to do. I am alone in this.
"My mother died last year at 83 years old and my sister died five years ago, so I am very alone in this. My parents and I shared a home for about 8 yrs, and when my mom died my 87 year old dad still lives with me. I am his POA for financial and health. We have several accounts and CD's and checking that are joint. But some are only in his name. When my mother was dying, she begged me to try to find out what is going on with my dad mentally as she was concerned that he was showing signs of alzheimers for at least several years. After a great struggle with him (he is very stubborn) after she died, I took him to an elite geri psyche unit at the VA in La Jolla, CA. They tested him, and they say he has mild to moderate multinfarct dementia. He has not been declared incompetent in a court of law. Even though he had his license pulled due to the diagnosis of dementia that was made, as they had to report it to the DMV, he obsessed night and day about getting the license back. The DMV allowed him to keep taking the test until he passed (4X). A few months after my mother died, he went out and sold his Avalon and bought a Mercedes and he told me he wanted to marry my mom's sister, that he has always loved her. The reason he obsessed so much losing his license to drive was that he is using the Mercedes to attract young attractive females that he could impress with his car. He has made sexual advances towards my aunt (during my mothers funeral and after), and keeps wanting her to be with him after she has repeatedly refused him, and he has offered her lots of money saying she'd never have to worry again financially. He flirts with young women in front of me. At times, he asks the same question over and over again, every ten minutes. Other times he seems okay. He is independent in all his ADL's-and as I said before he is still driving. After he got his Mercedes last year, he has increasingly started showing off his Mercedes to young women, and I THINK he may be bragging about how "comfortable financially" he is, as he has done this before. He loves to show off . Recently I've become aware that he may be seeing a much younger woman. I heard her voice on the phone, and he is very secretive about his personal life and where he goes in his car. I know he started taking a lady who is age appropriate out for dinner after going to the senior center, but he lies so much, I have no way of knowing what is true or what is made up. Yesterday he got a phone call from a woman verifying that it was him and then asking how he liked her services. I heard this through the phone, as he had the volume set to very high. He didn'nt understand what she was saying or implying and he said she'd have to speak to his daughter. After he handed me the phone and I said hello, the woman hung up. So he may even be paying for sex. For the last forty years of my parents marriage, my mom shared that because of diabetes, he could not have sex with her and was uninterested in sex. Now a year after she died, and even right after her death, he started to become obessessed with sex. My aunt will not tell me the crazy things (her words) he says to her, because she doesn't want to upset me. He has made some unwise financial decisions, like buying a parrott for $1500 that will live for 80 years, and all he does is feed her and clean the cage, spending no time training or being with the parrott. I could go on and on with all the weird stuff, but basically, he appears quite normal and jovial if you don't know him well. None of his doctors are willing to work with me even though the tests show he has multiinfarct dementia. They say they want him to see another neuro psyche doctor or go back to the VA and see their neuro psyche doctors, which he will not do. He cancelled the other two appointments I made for him last year at the VA with neuro psyche, and wouldn't' speak to me for two months after he got the diagnosis of dementia and had his license pulled. He thinks he is young and handsome and a sex object (this is from my aunt). I think women or a woman is telling him this. I know my dad, so I know he will absolutely refuse to go back for any testing or psych evals. I've had varying attorney's tell me it is hard, and then another say it would be easy to go for conservatorship given his diagnosis. But I have been led to believe that he can hire his own attorney and contest the legal action to get him a conservator or guardian, and if that is true, I know he will fight to the death. He is that determined. And if he ended up winning, because he does come across so intact, he would never talk to me again. And I would lose my dad. I am not sure what I should or shouldn't do, if anything.
Do you think the tests could be wrong, and he really doesn't have dementia? Do you think he is at risk for financial abuse? Is there anything I should do that I have not done? I even spoke to the banks asking what they would need in order to not allow him to cash in the CD's if he that was what he wanted to do, and they said that pretty much they would need doctors to sign or a legal document from the court. And the doctors will not sign without another test that he will not take, and I'd have to take him to court for any legal documents. My aunt asked, what would I do if he wanted to get married and live with someone. Do you think this would be appropriate for a man 87 years old diagnosed with dementia?. Wouldn't it make more sense if he just had a friend that he took out to the movies or dinner and such? I am so confused and upset. I don't know what is right or wrong anymore, or if I should just drop the whole thing? Please help, i'm desperate."
Please help. I just don't know what to do. I am alone in this.
"My mother died last year at 83 years old and my sister died five years ago, so I am very alone in this. My parents and I shared a home for about 8 yrs, and when my mom died my 87 year old dad still lives with me. I am his POA for financial and health. We have several accounts and CD's and checking that are joint. But some are only in his name. When my mother was dying, she begged me to try to find out what is going on with my dad mentally as she was concerned that he was showing signs of alzheimers for at least several years. After a great struggle with him (he is very stubborn) after she died, I took him to an elite geri psyche unit at the VA in La Jolla, CA. They tested him, and they say he has mild to moderate multinfarct dementia. He has not been declared incompetent in a court of law. Even though he had his license pulled due to the diagnosis of dementia that was made, as they had to report it to the DMV, he obsessed night and day about getting the license back. The DMV allowed him to keep taking the test until he passed (4X). A few months after my mother died, he went out and sold his Avalon and bought a Mercedes and he told me he wanted to marry my mom's sister, that he has always loved her. The reason he obsessed so much losing his license to drive was that he is using the Mercedes to attract young attractive females that he could impress with his car. He has made sexual advances towards my aunt (during my mothers funeral and after), and keeps wanting her to be with him after she has repeatedly refused him, and he has offered her lots of money saying she'd never have to worry again financially. He flirts with young women in front of me. At times, he asks the same question over and over again, every ten minutes. Other times he seems okay. He is independent in all his ADL's-and as I said before he is still driving. After he got his Mercedes last year, he has increasingly started showing off his Mercedes to young women, and I THINK he may be bragging about how "comfortable financially" he is, as he has done this before. He loves to show off . Recently I've become aware that he may be seeing a much younger woman. I heard her voice on the phone, and he is very secretive about his personal life and where he goes in his car. I know he started taking a lady who is age appropriate out for dinner after going to the senior center, but he lies so much, I have no way of knowing what is true or what is made up. Yesterday he got a phone call from a woman verifying that it was him and then asking how he liked her services. I heard this through the phone, as he had the volume set to very high. He didn'nt understand what she was saying or implying and he said she'd have to speak to his daughter. After he handed me the phone and I said hello, the woman hung up. So he may even be paying for sex. For the last forty years of my parents marriage, my mom shared that because of diabetes, he could not have sex with her and was uninterested in sex. Now a year after she died, and even right after her death, he started to become obessessed with sex. My aunt will not tell me the crazy things (her words) he says to her, because she doesn't want to upset me. He has made some unwise financial decisions, like buying a parrott for $1500 that will live for 80 years, and all he does is feed her and clean the cage, spending no time training or being with the parrott. I could go on and on with all the weird stuff, but basically, he appears quite normal and jovial if you don't know him well. None of his doctors are willing to work with me even though the tests show he has multiinfarct dementia. They say they want him to see another neuro psyche doctor or go back to the VA and see their neuro psyche doctors, which he will not do. He cancelled the other two appointments I made for him last year at the VA with neuro psyche, and wouldn't' speak to me for two months after he got the diagnosis of dementia and had his license pulled. He thinks he is young and handsome and a sex object (this is from my aunt). I think women or a woman is telling him this. I know my dad, so I know he will absolutely refuse to go back for any testing or psych evals. I've had varying attorney's tell me it is hard, and then another say it would be easy to go for conservatorship given his diagnosis. But I have been led to believe that he can hire his own attorney and contest the legal action to get him a conservator or guardian, and if that is true, I know he will fight to the death. He is that determined. And if he ended up winning, because he does come across so intact, he would never talk to me again. And I would lose my dad. I am not sure what I should or shouldn't do, if anything.
Do you think the tests could be wrong, and he really doesn't have dementia? Do you think he is at risk for financial abuse? Is there anything I should do that I have not done? I even spoke to the banks asking what they would need in order to not allow him to cash in the CD's if he that was what he wanted to do, and they said that pretty much they would need doctors to sign or a legal document from the court. And the doctors will not sign without another test that he will not take, and I'd have to take him to court for any legal documents. My aunt asked, what would I do if he wanted to get married and live with someone. Do you think this would be appropriate for a man 87 years old diagnosed with dementia?. Wouldn't it make more sense if he just had a friend that he took out to the movies or dinner and such? I am so confused and upset. I don't know what is right or wrong anymore, or if I should just drop the whole thing? Please help, i'm desperate."
Wow, I thought I had it bad. My FIL has Alzheimer's and I thought he was a handful. I can't imagine what you must be going through. I don't know what to tell you other than the fact that you can't force him. Is he willing to go to a "general" checkup or is he already suspicious of getting another psych eval?
Wow, I thought I had it bad. My FIL has Alzheimer's and I thought he was a handful. I can't imagine what you must be going through. I don't know what to tell you other than the fact that you can't force him. Is he willing to go to a "general" checkup or is he already suspicious of getting another psych eval?
Gosh, thanks so much for answering. I'm so grateful . The answer is that he goes to his doctors alll the time. He knows who they are and how to schmooze them. And he would know if I were taking him elsewhere- and would refuse to participate if he even thought for one minute it was a neuro psyche eval or any thing to do with his dementia. He is hyper vigilant now, ever since the car/license disaster. So no, he would not go if he thought for an instant it had to do with the dementia. And he would make my life a living hell, and I would loose any small amount of influence and trust I have with him now! He would probably move out as he is very impulsive now. Thanks so much for answering.
Gosh, thanks so much for answering. I'm so grateful . The answer is that he goes to his doctors alll the time. He knows who they are and how to schmooze them. And he would know if I were taking him elsewhere- and would refuse to participate if he even thought for one minute it was a neuro psyche eval or any thing to do with his dementia. He is hyper vigilant now, ever since the car/license disaster. So no, he would not go if he thought for an instant it had to do with the dementia. And he would make my life a living hell, and I would loose any small amount of influence and trust I have with him now! He would probably move out as he is very impulsive now. Thanks so much for answering.
What is it that you're afraid of most?
What is it that you're afraid of most?
I guess I'm not really afraid-just concerned that he will be taken advantage of financially and wiped out, emotionally if he really thinks he's in love, medically if he is not reminded of various things, etc. I would not feel the same way if the woman was closer to his age. It would make more sense. I've been told dementia only gets worse not better. He's 87 years old. He makes bad decisions and usually I have to help him reason through what to do because he can't figure out what to do on his own. His - I think they call it- executive function - is impaired. Some times he yells and loses his temper for the slightest thing. What if some woman takes all his money and his "love" so to speak, and dumps him because he really is an old man and not the lothario he sees himself as? As his only surviving child and his POA don't I have a duty to protect him? He is incapable of paying his bills, becausevhe does not understand them and I have been paying them for him. Eventually he's going to need more and more assistance. What if he goes off and marries someone much younger because he thinks he's in love and they clean him out and he'll have nothing left to care for himself if he gets really bad? These are just a few of my concerns-which were actually told to me by an elder attorney, who says these nightmare scenerios are not uncommon and happen all too often to lonely old men. He's also become obsessed sexually. He"s spoken to my aunt about taking Viagra. What if he fond a way to get a hold of some? He has a heart condition and I'm concerned he might hut himself or come on to someone inappropriately. Anyway these are just some of my concerns. Do you think I am worrying for nothing and I should just let him do whatever he wants to do and forget about it?
I guess I'm not really afraid-just concerned that he will be taken advantage of financially and wiped out, emotionally if he really thinks he's in love, medically if he is not reminded of various things, etc. I would not feel the same way if the woman was closer to his age. It would make more sense. I've been told dementia only gets worse not better. He's 87 years old. He makes bad decisions and usually I have to help him reason through what to do because he can't figure out what to do on his own. His - I think they call it- executive function - is impaired. Some times he yells and loses his temper for the slightest thing. What if some woman takes all his money and his "love" so to speak, and dumps him because he really is an old man and not the lothario he sees himself as? As his only surviving child and his POA don't I have a duty to protect him? He is incapable of paying his bills, becausevhe does not understand them and I have been paying them for him. Eventually he's going to need more and more assistance. What if he goes off and marries someone much younger because he thinks he's in love and they clean him out and he'll have nothing left to care for himself if he gets really bad? These are just a few of my concerns-which were actually told to me by an elder attorney, who says these nightmare scenerios are not uncommon and happen all too often to lonely old men. He's also become obsessed sexually. He"s spoken to my aunt about taking Viagra. What if he fond a way to get a hold of some? He has a heart condition and I'm concerned he might hut himself or come on to someone inappropriately. Anyway these are just some of my concerns. Do you think I am worrying for nothing and I should just let him do whatever he wants to do and forget about it?
But what I do worry about is his driving. I'm afraid he'll kill himself or someone else.I don' trust him behind the wheel. He almost got us killed a couple of times because when he makes a left hand turn, he just stops in the middle of the road and turns verrrrrrry slowly when there is oncoming traffic coming right toward us. And the DMV gave him BACK his license.
But what I do worry about is his driving. I'm afraid he'll kill himself or someone else.I don' trust him behind the wheel. He almost got us killed a couple of times because when he makes a left hand turn, he just stops in the middle of the road and turns verrrrrrry slowly when there is oncoming traffic coming right toward us. And the DMV gave him BACK his license.
It is very sad that in many of these cases we can do nothing but be there if it turns out bad. Some things you can do:
Keep an open channel of communication.
Report any and all situations of financial exploitation to you local adult protection agency. Your identity will be protected. If the scammers get interviewed they may just run, but even if they don't you'll have the report registered.
Try to talk him into a seperate account which needs two signatures that would only be used if and when he needs a caregiver or other special needs.
Many states have an elderly driver exam, talk him into talking it with you (even if you don't need it) because it lowers insurance rates.
Find out from the DMV or his license how often he has to be renew. Most states have a graduated licensing process when it comes to dementia.
You have his health POA, find out if he is getting viagra - no joke - this could answer a few questions regarding his diabetes ED.
Ask to talk him and his 'girlfriend' out to lunch, "you'd love to meet her", just to let her know you are in his life and not stupid - watch how she treats him.
Sometimes it takes a little acting and a little letting go. Just as we could not be protected from everything growing up, our elderly cannot be protected from everything in growing old.
It is very sad that in many of these cases we can do nothing but be there if it turns out bad. Some things you can do:
Keep an open channel of communication.
Report any and all situations of financial exploitation to you local adult protection agency. Your identity will be protected. If the scammers get interviewed they may just run, but even if they don't you'll have the report registered.
Try to talk him into a seperate account which needs two signatures that would only be used if and when he needs a caregiver or other special needs.
Many states have an elderly driver exam, talk him into talking it with you (even if you don't need it) because it lowers insurance rates.
Find out from the DMV or his license how often he has to be renew. Most states have a graduated licensing process when it comes to dementia.
You have his health POA, find out if he is getting viagra - no joke - this could answer a few questions regarding his diabetes ED.
Ask to talk him and his 'girlfriend' out to lunch, "you'd love to meet her", just to let her know you are in his life and not stupid - watch how she treats him.
Sometimes it takes a little acting and a little letting go. Just as we could not be protected from everything growing up, our elderly cannot be protected from everything in growing old.
So you think I should tell him that I know he is either seeing someone or having sex with someone? He is going out of his way to keep this a big secret, and I know he does not want me to know. Should I tell him I know? He is supposed to take a drivers test in November, so we will see about that. As for the Viagra, I guess i could go to his doctors to ask, but even with a POA they are not cooperative as he has not been declared incompetent legally, and I know they do not want to talk to me without his consent.
So you think I should tell him that I know he is either seeing someone or having sex with someone? He is going out of his way to keep this a big secret, and I know he does not want me to know. Should I tell him I know? He is supposed to take a drivers test in November, so we will see about that. As for the Viagra, I guess i could go to his doctors to ask, but even with a POA they are not cooperative as he has not been declared incompetent legally, and I know they do not want to talk to me without his consent.
I think I would let him know that I knew and that he needn't keep any secrets from you, that you would love to meet her...whatever it takes to bring it out in the open. I don't like that secret part...maybe someone is telling him to keep it secret, and that makes me hinky. I forgot about the incompentent part of a POA, sorry.
I think I would let him know that I knew and that he needn't keep any secrets from you, that you would love to meet her...whatever it takes to bring it out in the open. I don't like that secret part...maybe someone is telling him to keep it secret, and that makes me hinky. I forgot about the incompentent part of a POA, sorry.
What do you think I should say? How should I broach the subject? What if he denies it or lies about it? What if he makes nothing of it and says it's nothing or gets upset that I brought it up and says I'm crazy? What if he refuses to introduce her? I'm just wondering. Because he's done all of these things in the past when he doesn't want to face something or just doesn't want the truth to come out. He denies his Multi infarct dementia all the time.
What do you think I should say? How should I broach the subject? What if he denies it or lies about it? What if he makes nothing of it and says it's nothing or gets upset that I brought it up and says I'm crazy? What if he refuses to introduce her? I'm just wondering. Because he's done all of these things in the past when he doesn't want to face something or just doesn't want the truth to come out. He denies his Multi infarct dementia all the time.
I went through almost the exact same thing as you're going through about 10 yrs. ago with my dad. He has just passed away this last September. My mom lives with me now. They were married 61 yrs. I agree with everyone in that you need to get involved with these "other so-called people." My dad came to me and said he was leaving my mom and moving together with an employee of his; she was about 40 and he was maybe 70 at that time. I got right in the middle of it, suffice to say she disappeared real quick. Let anyone and everyone know about you. Don't let these prople get away with it. They are after only 1 thing. Try to put your name on as much legal stuff as possible. It's for his own good. We have to look out for our loved ones. Senior abuse is rampant right now. Just let him know everyday how much you love him, and how concerned you are. Good luck!!
I went through almost the exact same thing as you're going through about 10 yrs. ago with my dad. He has just passed away this last September. My mom lives with me now. They were married 61 yrs. I agree with everyone in that you need to get involved with these "other so-called people." My dad came to me and said he was leaving my mom and moving together with an employee of his; she was about 40 and he was maybe 70 at that time. I got right in the middle of it, suffice to say she disappeared real quick. Let anyone and everyone know about you. Don't let these prople get away with it. They are after only 1 thing. Try to put your name on as much legal stuff as possible. It's for his own good. We have to look out for our loved ones. Senior abuse is rampant right now. Just let him know everyday how much you love him, and how concerned you are. Good luck!!
Suggestion: If you know your father's doctor, contact him asap. ....My parents had a lady that had become their friend..she took mother out of the house to her home...took her to bank - mother closed parents checking acct, opened new account with this lady's name on the account and cashed a CD. ....When sister and I intervened with the state police...lady was told she had no rights. If mother had not came with us...we could have obtained an emergency guardian with the court system. They would have taken mother out of house and to nursing home for admission. ...Parent's doctor declared mother incompetent and unable to handle her medical or financial affairs. Later...obtained the same for father. ...My father picked up a key from my house and ended 2hrs away in another state. The only prayer that we had the police intervened...put dad's truck on a tow truck and returned him home. He was very confused when he return. He told use 'he had problems with the engine' but he had run out of gas. We were very lucky! Good resource book for information regarding multiple issues: 'The 36 hour day'by Nancy Mace and Peter Rabins,MD - 1999 copy and now 2006 copy - 4th edition. Very informative.
Suggestion: If you know your father's doctor, contact him asap. ....My parents had a lady that had become their friend..she took mother out of the house to her home...took her to bank - mother closed parents checking acct, opened new account with this lady's name on the account and cashed a CD. ....When sister and I intervened with the state police...lady was told she had no rights. If mother had not came with us...we could have obtained an emergency guardian with the court system. They would have taken mother out of house and to nursing home for admission. ...Parent's doctor declared mother incompetent and unable to handle her medical or financial affairs. Later...obtained the same for father. ...My father picked up a key from my house and ended 2hrs away in another state. The only prayer that we had the police intervened...put dad's truck on a tow truck and returned him home. He was very confused when he return. He told use 'he had problems with the engine' but he had run out of gas. We were very lucky! Good resource book for information regarding multiple issues: 'The 36 hour day'by Nancy Mace and Peter Rabins,MD - 1999 copy and now 2006 copy - 4th edition. Very informative.
every time I think I have it bad with my 90 yr, old demanding mother, I read a post like this. Is it possible to gain full control of your FIL's finances so he doesn't get used by some younger woman without scruples. Anyway, Best Wishes Remember: This, too, shall pass. dragonfly9382
every time I think I have it bad with my 90 yr, old demanding mother, I read a post like this. Is it possible to gain full control of your FIL's finances so he doesn't get used by some younger woman without scruples. Anyway, Best Wishes Remember: This, too, shall pass. dragonfly9382
By State Law, that type of scam is considered fraudulent. The courts may not be able to get your money back and the cost of suit is prohibitive. I am not sure if the money is returnable because you did the work. You might want to refer it to the District Attourney in your area. The proof is a different story. If the account is not retainable you might contact the institution that account was made at. Let the people know you have been duped. Contact the news people to relate that they should beware. Never let a person you don't know have your funds. Other than account for the past as a learned lesson that is all you can do. Hindsight or fore-thought. Prof. Logan D.L.J.
By State Law, that type of scam is considered fraudulent. The courts may not be able to get your money back and the cost of suit is prohibitive. I am not sure if the money is returnable because you did the work. You might want to refer it to the District Attourney in your area. The proof is a different story. If the account is not retainable you might contact the institution that account was made at. Let the people know you have been duped. Contact the news people to relate that they should beware. Never let a person you don't know have your funds. Other than account for the past as a learned lesson that is all you can do. Hindsight or fore-thought. Prof. Logan D.L.J.
there are a lot of people who will take advantage of your dad. He could end up losing every thing,or marying some gold diger. put the breaks on the situation. find out legally what you can do. good luck.
there are a lot of people who will take advantage of your dad. He could end up losing every thing,or marying some gold diger. put the breaks on the situation. find out legally what you can do. good luck.
Our prayers are with you...contact your father's doctor about these issues.ASAP!!!! Based on the information that you provided...you cannot delay in addressing these issues. Each day that goes by....you lose more control of these multiple issues. ...Driving we contact mother's doctor and she wrote a letter to the BMV in the state and her license was revoked after it was given to her. I also wrote a letter to the BMV regarding circumstances of her driving and almost hitting my father in a parking lot.
Our prayers are with you...contact your father's doctor about these issues.ASAP!!!! Based on the information that you provided...you cannot delay in addressing these issues. Each day that goes by....you lose more control of these multiple issues. ...Driving we contact mother's doctor and she wrote a letter to the BMV in the state and her license was revoked after it was given to her. I also wrote a letter to the BMV regarding circumstances of her driving and almost hitting my father in a parking lot.
Thank you all so much for your responses. It is so wonderful to hear from all of you. It makes me feel so much less alone. Unfortunately, I have nothing good to report back to you. I have attempted all of the suggestions above many months ago, to no avail. Here is what occurred. My father just took his driving test, as they had re-instated his license, per my previous post. He failed the driving test, and I quote from the performance evaluation score sheet telling him why they failed him: this is written by the tester on the score sheet:
"I had to tell you to stop, to avoid collision, you started to turn right in front of an oncoming vehicle. Too fast, drive at speed limit. Check blind spot. Signal from pulling to and from the curb. Traffic check at all intersections."
She also put a circle around CONCENTRATION!
She failed him. Would you want to be on the road with a person that drives like that? I wouldn't either. Guess what! They're letting him take it AGAIN. They are repeating what happened the last time where they let him take the test 4X until he passed it. Even though he failed, the supervisor of the SAFETY DIVISION likes my father, and grants him time after time of chances to pass the test. It's ludicrous. And his doctors will not get involved in both the driving situation or protecting him from fraud or financial abuse.
His heart doctor is not accepting the test from the VA as good enough for her, the test from a highly regarded state of the art facility. No, she wants him to take the test again with HER doctors. I explained to her, that he would never again go WILLINGINGLY to be tested for dementia. He already blames me for the trouble he's had with the DMV because the VA notified the DMV that he had dementia, and that is when the whole testing for driving started. He hates the tests and feels like they are all out to get him. He says he's been driving for over 60 years and that is enough proof he can drive correctly. He accepts no responsibility for making errors that cause him to fail, and feels persecuted. So he would never again go to take a test for dementia, not if his life depended upon it. I tried to talk to his doctors about this, but they will not listen, and I am told this is what the doctor wants and will not cooperate otherwise. They do not care. They are more interested in keeping their patient, and keeping him happy, then doing what is best for him. They all like my dad because he kids around with them and makes them laugh. And he covers up real well when he is at the doctors. They do not see him when he is at home, and they will not take my word for it. And the VA would need my dads approval in order for me to get hold of their tests. Also, no doctor at the VA will participate in helping because dad was supposed to go to two more geri-psyche appointments, which he called up and cancelled behind my back. So they say that everything is incomplete as he never came back and followed through.
I spoke to an eldercare attorney, and he says in order to get anywhere legally, especially since he has not been declared incompetent, we would need the doctors to cooperate, or else I would have to take him to court and battle him in a competency hearing, which I will not do. He could get his own attorney, which he surely would do. They are making it so hard, the entire system, to protect him from himself, I am beside myself. I do not know what else to do. If he has not been declared incompetent, he can move out and refuse to speak to me. I would not be able to protect him even a little bit. He is the only family I have. Even if I did take him to court, if per chance, he won, then I would lose him altogether. He would move out, I know he would. He would want nothing to do with me. And then there would be even less controls in place. He would surely be in danger and at risk even more than he is now. The doctors are immoveable and so is the DMV, granting him time and time again to take the test until he passes it, even with a horrendous report like the one I quoted above. I've all but given up. I do not know anywhere else to turn after talking to his doctors, attorney's, DMV - and the DMV will not even talk to me, they say it is a violation of his privacy, and he would have to give his permission, which of course he wouldn't do.
I'm out of ideas, frustrated and I cannot think of anything else to do. I feel powerless against the system. If anyone has any new ideas, (not any of the above I previously mentioned), I would dearly love to hear them. But I'm not expecting there to be any magic pill or good solution any time soon.
Thank you all so very much for your caring and concern. It makes a difference, believe me, it makes me feel less alone. Thank you and bless you all. Shellie :-)
Thank you all so much for your responses. It is so wonderful to hear from all of you. It makes me feel so much less alone. Unfortunately, I have nothing good to report back to you. I have attempted all of the suggestions above many months ago, to no avail. Here is what occurred. My father just took his driving test, as they had re-instated his license, per my previous post. He failed the driving test, and I quote from the performance evaluation score sheet telling him why they failed him: this is written by the tester on the score sheet:
"I had to tell you to stop, to avoid collision, you started to turn right in front of an oncoming vehicle. Too fast, drive at speed limit. Check blind spot. Signal from pulling to and from the curb. Traffic check at all intersections."
She also put a circle around CONCENTRATION!
She failed him. Would you want to be on the road with a person that drives like that? I wouldn't either. Guess what! They're letting him take it AGAIN. They are repeating what happened the last time where they let him take the test 4X until he passed it. Even though he failed, the supervisor of the SAFETY DIVISION likes my father, and grants him time after time of chances to pass the test. It's ludicrous. And his doctors will not get involved in both the driving situation or protecting him from fraud or financial abuse.
His heart doctor is not accepting the test from the VA as good enough for her, the test from a highly regarded state of the art facility. No, she wants him to take the test again with HER doctors. I explained to her, that he would never again go WILLINGINGLY to be tested for dementia. He already blames me for the trouble he's had with the DMV because the VA notified the DMV that he had dementia, and that is when the whole testing for driving started. He hates the tests and feels like they are all out to get him. He says he's been driving for over 60 years and that is enough proof he can drive correctly. He accepts no responsibility for making errors that cause him to fail, and feels persecuted. So he would never again go to take a test for dementia, not if his life depended upon it. I tried to talk to his doctors about this, but they will not listen, and I am told this is what the doctor wants and will not cooperate otherwise. They do not care. They are more interested in keeping their patient, and keeping him happy, then doing what is best for him. They all like my dad because he kids around with them and makes them laugh. And he covers up real well when he is at the doctors. They do not see him when he is at home, and they will not take my word for it. And the VA would need my dads approval in order for me to get hold of their tests. Also, no doctor at the VA will participate in helping because dad was supposed to go to two more geri-psyche appointments, which he called up and cancelled behind my back. So they say that everything is incomplete as he never came back and followed through.
I spoke to an eldercare attorney, and he says in order to get anywhere legally, especially since he has not been declared incompetent, we would need the doctors to cooperate, or else I would have to take him to court and battle him in a competency hearing, which I will not do. He could get his own attorney, which he surely would do. They are making it so hard, the entire system, to protect him from himself, I am beside myself. I do not know what else to do. If he has not been declared incompetent, he can move out and refuse to speak to me. I would not be able to protect him even a little bit. He is the only family I have. Even if I did take him to court, if per chance, he won, then I would lose him altogether. He would move out, I know he would. He would want nothing to do with me. And then there would be even less controls in place. He would surely be in danger and at risk even more than he is now. The doctors are immoveable and so is the DMV, granting him time and time again to take the test until he passes it, even with a horrendous report like the one I quoted above. I've all but given up. I do not know anywhere else to turn after talking to his doctors, attorney's, DMV - and the DMV will not even talk to me, they say it is a violation of his privacy, and he would have to give his permission, which of course he wouldn't do.
I'm out of ideas, frustrated and I cannot think of anything else to do. I feel powerless against the system. If anyone has any new ideas, (not any of the above I previously mentioned), I would dearly love to hear them. But I'm not expecting there to be any magic pill or good solution any time soon.
Thank you all so very much for your caring and concern. It makes a difference, believe me, it makes me feel less alone. Thank you and bless you all. Shellie :-)
I recently purchase a book: 'The 36 hour day', family guide to caring for persons with Altzheimers Disease, related dementing illnesses, and memory loss in later life. I have 1999 copy but new copy 2006 is available. Authors: Nancy Mace and Peter Rabins, MD. ...Excellent resource and may give you direction of what to do next.
....If you get a chance to talk to MD, I would emphasize that if he gets his license back, hits someone, or kills someone you will hold them responsible. Surely the MD is seeing his changes and is requesting additional testing. Physicians do not want to be held responsible for the negative.
...Do you have any other siblings?
...I would get a notebook, date and write down the changes that you see. Doctor appts and any information that you receive. Keep this current.
...It does not matter...my parents thought that I was the 'dog' in addressing these issues.
....We had a meeting with father's doctor with sister and brother. Brother was in complete denial of the changes. But he lives in CA and we were here with parents. So we were able to move forward...spent many bad days but I now know they are both in a safe place/nursing home and would be a threat to the public.
...My prayers are with you.....Read this book. If can't afford get copy from library. It will reinforce what you are seeing and suggestions what you need to do next.
I recently purchase a book: 'The 36 hour day', family guide to caring for persons with Altzheimers Disease, related dementing illnesses, and memory loss in later life. I have 1999 copy but new copy 2006 is available. Authors: Nancy Mace and Peter Rabins, MD. ...Excellent resource and may give you direction of what to do next.
....If you get a chance to talk to MD, I would emphasize that if he gets his license back, hits someone, or kills someone you will hold them responsible. Surely the MD is seeing his changes and is requesting additional testing. Physicians do not want to be held responsible for the negative.
...Do you have any other siblings?
...I would get a notebook, date and write down the changes that you see. Doctor appts and any information that you receive. Keep this current.
...It does not matter...my parents thought that I was the 'dog' in addressing these issues.
....We had a meeting with father's doctor with sister and brother. Brother was in complete denial of the changes. But he lives in CA and we were here with parents. So we were able to move forward...spent many bad days but I now know they are both in a safe place/nursing home and would be a threat to the public.
...My prayers are with you.....Read this book. If can't afford get copy from library. It will reinforce what you are seeing and suggestions what you need to do next.
The doctor does not talk to me on the phone, as she is "too busy", and she has her nurse practitioner or assistant talk with me and they give her the message. Also, in person, they will not talk with me alone, unless my dad gives his permission, which he will not. He is very paranoid. I have told the nurse practitioner and assistant what you have said above, that I would hold them responsible if he got into an accident and hit or killed himself or some one else. It doesn't seem to matter. Really. I am not kidding. I looked at the form they had to fill out for the DMV about any changes they notice and any impediments they know of that might interfere with his driving, and they denied any obvious changes. Plus my dad is cagey. I believe he knows, deep down, that there is something happening, even though he won't admit it. He can cover up real well with humor and compliments, for the few minutes that they see him, 2 to 3 times a year. They don't take my word for it. My only sister, and only sibling, who was very concerned about his dementia and alerted me to the issue herself, died five years ago. The only thing the doctor would do, is when there was a yes or no check off question on the DMV form asking them if they thought it would be a good idea to retest him in driving the car, they checked yes, just to cover themselves. But they are leaving everything up to the DMV. If they pass him, well it was the DMV's fault for passing him, not theirs. After all, they checked the box to retest his driving. They will blame the DMV for letting him take the test over and over again until he passes again. And they do have a point. To be fair, my father only spends a few minuets with them maybe two to three times a year. He kids around with them, compliments them, and is generally a jovial and likable guy. They don't want to lose him as a patient nor do anything to alienate him. They are not with him long enough to even notice changes in his abilities. But what they COULD do, is accept the word of an ELITE GERI PSYCHE unit at the La Jolla VA that states after an intensive 6 hour evaluation, they found him to have mild to moderate multi infarct dementia. This was evaluated by psychiatrists, neuro and geri psyche doctors, psychologists, etc. If they would only accept the word of the VA, we would be able to move forward in all directions. But they are immovable. As I said in my first post, I am all alone in this. By requiring him to take a 2nd test before they are willing to help, when he will simply refuse with every ounce of strength that is in him, they are effectively issuing a death knell to anything I am trying to do to protect him. I will get the book.
Thanks so much for your input. I so appreciate your taking the time to write. :-)
The doctor does not talk to me on the phone, as she is "too busy", and she has her nurse practitioner or assistant talk with me and they give her the message. Also, in person, they will not talk with me alone, unless my dad gives his permission, which he will not. He is very paranoid. I have told the nurse practitioner and assistant what you have said above, that I would hold them responsible if he got into an accident and hit or killed himself or some one else. It doesn't seem to matter. Really. I am not kidding. I looked at the form they had to fill out for the DMV about any changes they notice and any impediments they know of that might interfere with his driving, and they denied any obvious changes. Plus my dad is cagey. I believe he knows, deep down, that there is something happening, even though he won't admit it. He can cover up real well with humor and compliments, for the few minutes that they see him, 2 to 3 times a year. They don't take my word for it. My only sister, and only sibling, who was very concerned about his dementia and alerted me to the issue herself, died five years ago. The only thing the doctor would do, is when there was a yes or no check off question on the DMV form asking them if they thought it would be a good idea to retest him in driving the car, they checked yes, just to cover themselves. But they are leaving everything up to the DMV. If they pass him, well it was the DMV's fault for passing him, not theirs. After all, they checked the box to retest his driving. They will blame the DMV for letting him take the test over and over again until he passes again. And they do have a point. To be fair, my father only spends a few minuets with them maybe two to three times a year. He kids around with them, compliments them, and is generally a jovial and likable guy. They don't want to lose him as a patient nor do anything to alienate him. They are not with him long enough to even notice changes in his abilities. But what they COULD do, is accept the word of an ELITE GERI PSYCHE unit at the La Jolla VA that states after an intensive 6 hour evaluation, they found him to have mild to moderate multi infarct dementia. This was evaluated by psychiatrists, neuro and geri psyche doctors, psychologists, etc. If they would only accept the word of the VA, we would be able to move forward in all directions. But they are immovable. As I said in my first post, I am all alone in this. By requiring him to take a 2nd test before they are willing to help, when he will simply refuse with every ounce of strength that is in him, they are effectively issuing a death knell to anything I am trying to do to protect him. I will get the book.
Thanks so much for your input. I so appreciate your taking the time to write. :-)
This is going to sound harsh, but I am a care giver too. My husband is the POA for financial and health for my mother-in-law. Here's my advise... Since you ARE the POA for his health - put your foot down and set boundries. Get a key logger for the computer he may be using. Get a GPS tracker for the car. Get a copy of his phone records. All are possible with a POA. Tell him that because of his dementia that it's time to be truthful about where he is mentally. He will be angry, I guarantee it. It is time to put him where he needs to be - in an age appropriate environment that is appropriate to his needs - lying and all. The phone records, the key logger, and the GPS tracker are all the neuro psych needs to see - you know, the one he trys to smooze? Right, that one. Keep detailed records for yourself and how this is affecting you. Show this also to the neuro psych doc. Be sure to provide them with every bit of evidence so that they can make a clear, sound decision without the lying and smoozing. It has to be done in a respectful manner when you confront him infront of his doctor, but by the same token, the doctor has to know whats up. Another thing that you must consider, if he is using prostitutes - which aren't healthy physically - then, he needs you to intervene. Selling the car may not be the answer; perhaps setting limits as to how and when he uses it. He'll probably argue that he's not a child. He's right, but he's not acting like a responsible adult either. That's what you're there for and even if it takes rules that he must abide by to make him into somewhat of a responsible adult, then okay. But the main thing is to keep him safe - from unsafe behaviors and to keep him healthy. Period.
This is going to sound harsh, but I am a care giver too. My husband is the POA for financial and health for my mother-in-law. Here's my advise... Since you ARE the POA for his health - put your foot down and set boundries. Get a key logger for the computer he may be using. Get a GPS tracker for the car. Get a copy of his phone records. All are possible with a POA. Tell him that because of his dementia that it's time to be truthful about where he is mentally. He will be angry, I guarantee it. It is time to put him where he needs to be - in an age appropriate environment that is appropriate to his needs - lying and all. The phone records, the key logger, and the GPS tracker are all the neuro psych needs to see - you know, the one he trys to smooze? Right, that one. Keep detailed records for yourself and how this is affecting you. Show this also to the neuro psych doc. Be sure to provide them with every bit of evidence so that they can make a clear, sound decision without the lying and smoozing. It has to be done in a respectful manner when you confront him infront of his doctor, but by the same token, the doctor has to know whats up. Another thing that you must consider, if he is using prostitutes - which aren't healthy physically - then, he needs you to intervene. Selling the car may not be the answer; perhaps setting limits as to how and when he uses it. He'll probably argue that he's not a child. He's right, but he's not acting like a responsible adult either. That's what you're there for and even if it takes rules that he must abide by to make him into somewhat of a responsible adult, then okay. But the main thing is to keep him safe - from unsafe behaviors and to keep him healthy. Period.
Wow, so sorry for your situation. I was caregiver for my mother for about 7 years.
she too was a master at fooling everyone. Stubborn, false claims of abuse, and various other things. fortunately, the bank she dealt with recognized the issues I was faced with. She removed my name from her checking acct. She proceeded to overdraw this acct numerous times. She got involved with some "concerned people" who proceeded to inventory her belongings and take control. She would not speak to me until finally she call one day to say she was being taken advantage of and needed help!!!I did have POA for health and finances which was a real help. She had made one trip to the attorney office to change her will. That never happened. Finally, I got my name on the acct again by not putting it on the checks. I gave her the least amount of info as to not raise any flags. She was really totally dependant on me and my husband. She started to really go downhill, I too had to go to the Nuro dr and get a letter sent to DVM for her driving was a real problem. DVM sent her a letter and I simply told her she could not drive any longer as the DVM would not renew her license. Her dr backed me up numerous times on this which was litterly a life saver, hers and others. I had so many people from the bank, dr office, any various others that I could not imagine going through this again. She eventually got very aggressive, and abusive to me especially. she still let me help her but I had to call 911 one day at she attacked me physically and I could not let that go. She tried to leave the house by walking up the street and unable to find her way back. She went calmly with the paramedics and then went to a care facility from there. I could no longer control her actions and was unable to give 24/7 car any longer. Safety was a priority.
Sometimes, being a little less forthcoming with info makes it easier for the patient to let the caregive handle things. I would explain things very simply, signature needed to I could continue to help her for example. When she could not longer pay her bills, drive, or understand the smallest things, she was more able to let me do them.
It was not easy, and the last year was pure hell a times. 30-40 phone calls a day at all hours, immediately needs for "crisis" that was not there. She called police for stolen items she misplaced...Same officers came when I called and understood the situation, they were so kind and understanding.
So, don't give up. there are some people out there who can help you. Check the Agency on Ageing in your area. Also Legal Aid for Seniors is a great organization. Good luck and stay positive.
Wow, so sorry for your situation. I was caregiver for my mother for about 7 years.
she too was a master at fooling everyone. Stubborn, false claims of abuse, and various other things. fortunately, the bank she dealt with recognized the issues I was faced with. She removed my name from her checking acct. She proceeded to overdraw this acct numerous times. She got involved with some "concerned people" who proceeded to inventory her belongings and take control. She would not speak to me until finally she call one day to say she was being taken advantage of and needed help!!!I did have POA for health and finances which was a real help. She had made one trip to the attorney office to change her will. That never happened. Finally, I got my name on the acct again by not putting it on the checks. I gave her the least amount of info as to not raise any flags. She was really totally dependant on me and my husband. She started to really go downhill, I too had to go to the Nuro dr and get a letter sent to DVM for her driving was a real problem. DVM sent her a letter and I simply told her she could not drive any longer as the DVM would not renew her license. Her dr backed me up numerous times on this which was litterly a life saver, hers and others. I had so many people from the bank, dr office, any various others that I could not imagine going through this again. She eventually got very aggressive, and abusive to me especially. she still let me help her but I had to call 911 one day at she attacked me physically and I could not let that go. She tried to leave the house by walking up the street and unable to find her way back. She went calmly with the paramedics and then went to a care facility from there. I could no longer control her actions and was unable to give 24/7 car any longer. Safety was a priority.
Sometimes, being a little less forthcoming with info makes it easier for the patient to let the caregive handle things. I would explain things very simply, signature needed to I could continue to help her for example. When she could not longer pay her bills, drive, or understand the smallest things, she was more able to let me do them.
It was not easy, and the last year was pure hell a times. 30-40 phone calls a day at all hours, immediately needs for "crisis" that was not there. She called police for stolen items she misplaced...Same officers came when I called and understood the situation, they were so kind and understanding.
So, don't give up. there are some people out there who can help you. Check the Agency on Ageing in your area. Also Legal Aid for Seniors is a great organization. Good luck and stay positive.
Are you able to get a new doctor? If not make an appointment with this doctor to talk about your father. Bring a copy of your POA papers for their file.This is a legal document that they have to honor. If they refuse contact your attorney. The doctor has a diagnosis from the VA that your father has dementia. Bring copies of this paperwork for their file. The doctor can write on his script pad no driving. Your father sounds like he is also sexually inappropriate which is another side effect of his disease. There are medicines he can take for that. If it becomes too much don't let him ruin your life. It is his dementia he is no longer your Dad as you knew him to be. Find out if you will be liable for any of his financial mistakes. I hope you can find a doctor who will do his/her job and help you and your Dad before it is too late. Document everything and their response time and date.
Are you able to get a new doctor? If not make an appointment with this doctor to talk about your father. Bring a copy of your POA papers for their file.This is a legal document that they have to honor. If they refuse contact your attorney. The doctor has a diagnosis from the VA that your father has dementia. Bring copies of this paperwork for their file. The doctor can write on his script pad no driving. Your father sounds like he is also sexually inappropriate which is another side effect of his disease. There are medicines he can take for that. If it becomes too much don't let him ruin your life. It is his dementia he is no longer your Dad as you knew him to be. Find out if you will be liable for any of his financial mistakes. I hope you can find a doctor who will do his/her job and help you and your Dad before it is too late. Document everything and their response time and date.
I'm so sorry you’re alone in this. It must be very hard. My father is also stubborn and difficult. He was diagnosed 4 years ago and thankfully we were able to take his car away this last fall (it is in the shop). First separate your financial accounts or make sure his insurance has a million dollar accident clause because of the joint accounts you also might be financially responsible. Several of the people on the site have given good advice. Get involved with the people your father is involved with and make them aware you’re watching. A medical POA gives you many rights and a lot of power if you have to - use it. Talk to his doctor face to face and bring all the info you have medical POA, test results, along with any notes you've taken on the situation. If this doesn’t work go back to the VA and see their neurologist/psyche doctors that you saw and see if you can get the competency letter from them (even try them first). In the long run your father will forget any bad feelings (it’s the nature of the disease) but if you can’t get control of your father’s actions you and he can be financially devastated. If you get a letter declaring your father incompetent immediately get a financial POA and/or Guardianship. Also call the Alzheimer’s association in your area they can give you advice and emotional support. They can also put you in touch with people who can help you. Good Luck and best wishes.
I'm so sorry you’re alone in this. It must be very hard. My father is also stubborn and difficult. He was diagnosed 4 years ago and thankfully we were able to take his car away this last fall (it is in the shop). First separate your financial accounts or make sure his insurance has a million dollar accident clause because of the joint accounts you also might be financially responsible. Several of the people on the site have given good advice. Get involved with the people your father is involved with and make them aware you’re watching. A medical POA gives you many rights and a lot of power if you have to - use it. Talk to his doctor face to face and bring all the info you have medical POA, test results, along with any notes you've taken on the situation. If this doesn’t work go back to the VA and see their neurologist/psyche doctors that you saw and see if you can get the competency letter from them (even try them first). In the long run your father will forget any bad feelings (it’s the nature of the disease) but if you can’t get control of your father’s actions you and he can be financially devastated. If you get a letter declaring your father incompetent immediately get a financial POA and/or Guardianship. Also call the Alzheimer’s association in your area they can give you advice and emotional support. They can also put you in touch with people who can help you. Good Luck and best wishes.
I can see you are really struggling with this driving business. My father 2 yrs. before he died passed his test the final time. He was, up to a few years ago, a general contractor, so he was very intelligent. My husband and I "snuck over " and disabled both cars by removing a fuse of some kind. It was heart-breaking because he always liked to go out and do things. But after the police called us several times, we did what we had to do. He just wasn't safe to be driving around our small town anymore. A few times he actually made it to places 2 hrs. away!! He always thought his car was "acting up" when it was just over heating because he failed to put water in the radiator and also gas. Hang in there. You are truly not alone. Keep in close touch with the dr.'s and make as many demands as you can.You have every right to be heard. God bless you. From Shari
I can see you are really struggling with this driving business. My father 2 yrs. before he died passed his test the final time. He was, up to a few years ago, a general contractor, so he was very intelligent. My husband and I "snuck over " and disabled both cars by removing a fuse of some kind. It was heart-breaking because he always liked to go out and do things. But after the police called us several times, we did what we had to do. He just wasn't safe to be driving around our small town anymore. A few times he actually made it to places 2 hrs. away!! He always thought his car was "acting up" when it was just over heating because he failed to put water in the radiator and also gas. Hang in there. You are truly not alone. Keep in close touch with the dr.'s and make as many demands as you can.You have every right to be heard. God bless you. From Shari