How much responsibility does the assisted living facility have in trying to control inappropriate sexual behavior of residents?
How much responsibility does the assisted living facility have in trying to control inappropriate sexual behavior of residents?
I've also posted this as a question for an expert, but would like some feedback, comments, suggestions from family who've experienced this type of situation.
Here's the problem:
My dad is in an assisted living facility - his second. He has been in this facility since March 2010. He was in another facility from November 2009 - March 2010 and prior to that he was at home with my mom.
A couple of weeks ago (on their 57th wedding anniversary no less!) the assisted living facility called to tell mom that dad was found in his room with a female resident. She was naked from the waist down and supposedly he was standing over her touching her private area.
Dad has been an insulin-dependent diabetic since 1975, has been on Lexapro, Aricept, and Kepra for the past three years. He is in a wheel chair. He has dementia.
The female resident involved has dementia, is a wanderer and is known to have had "boyfriends" come and make conjugal visits in the past. The facility put a stop to that at some point. I do not know how long ago that was.
Mom is in total denial that dad could have even been standing over this other resident much less touching her inappropriately because of the medications he is on and his diabetes.
Mom has asked dad several times about what happened and he says that the female resident came in his room, took off her pants, and sat down on his bed while he was in the bathroom on the toilet. Dad says he never got off the toilet. The facility says there were two or three employees that witnessed the incident and they all claim dad was standing over this other resident and touching her.
The facility told mom that she needs to have dad medicated to control his libido, which mom doesn't think he even has. I'm not completely sure that mom is correct in her opinion on this, but it does seem to be a bit of a stretch considering my dad's medications and general health.
Mom has requested that the facility make efforts to keep the other resident out of dad's room but she has found the other resident in dad's room on at least three occasions subsequent to the incident. Mom has lead the female resident out of dad's room and told her she is not to be in there and closed the door. This doesn't seem to be working, and of course mom is not there all the time to guard the door.
It seems to us that the female resident is the one who needs her libido chemically controlled, not dad.
We are planning to address this with dad's doctor in a few days and see what his take on the situation is.
Has anyone had a similar situation and how did you deal with it? When mom suggested to the DON (Director of Nursing) at the facility that the female resident involved was perhaps the one to be medicated mom was told "oh, she's just out of it. We can't do anything with her." I don't exactly agree with this answer from the facility, but I'm trying to understand what steps we need to take to get the facility to address this and help ensure it doesn't happen again.
Thanks in advance for any comments, suggestions, advice.
How much responsibility does the assisted living facility have in trying to control inappropriate sexual behavior of residents?
How much responsibility does the assisted living facility have in trying to control inappropriate sexual behavior of residents?
I've also posted this as a question for an expert, but would like some feedback, comments, suggestions from family who've experienced this type of situation.
Here's the problem:
My dad is in an assisted living facility - his second. He has been in this facility since March 2010. He was in another facility from November 2009 - March 2010 and prior to that he was at home with my mom.
A couple of weeks ago (on their 57th wedding anniversary no less!) the assisted living facility called to tell mom that dad was found in his room with a female resident. She was naked from the waist down and supposedly he was standing over her touching her private area.
Dad has been an insulin-dependent diabetic since 1975, has been on Lexapro, Aricept, and Kepra for the past three years. He is in a wheel chair. He has dementia.
The female resident involved has dementia, is a wanderer and is known to have had "boyfriends" come and make conjugal visits in the past. The facility put a stop to that at some point. I do not know how long ago that was.
Mom is in total denial that dad could have even been standing over this other resident much less touching her inappropriately because of the medications he is on and his diabetes.
Mom has asked dad several times about what happened and he says that the female resident came in his room, took off her pants, and sat down on his bed while he was in the bathroom on the toilet. Dad says he never got off the toilet. The facility says there were two or three employees that witnessed the incident and they all claim dad was standing over this other resident and touching her.
The facility told mom that she needs to have dad medicated to control his libido, which mom doesn't think he even has. I'm not completely sure that mom is correct in her opinion on this, but it does seem to be a bit of a stretch considering my dad's medications and general health.
Mom has requested that the facility make efforts to keep the other resident out of dad's room but she has found the other resident in dad's room on at least three occasions subsequent to the incident. Mom has lead the female resident out of dad's room and told her she is not to be in there and closed the door. This doesn't seem to be working, and of course mom is not there all the time to guard the door.
It seems to us that the female resident is the one who needs her libido chemically controlled, not dad.
We are planning to address this with dad's doctor in a few days and see what his take on the situation is.
Has anyone had a similar situation and how did you deal with it? When mom suggested to the DON (Director of Nursing) at the facility that the female resident involved was perhaps the one to be medicated mom was told "oh, she's just out of it. We can't do anything with her." I don't exactly agree with this answer from the facility, but I'm trying to understand what steps we need to take to get the facility to address this and help ensure it doesn't happen again.
Thanks in advance for any comments, suggestions, advice.
Assisted living facilities have a fairly tight circle of obligations and rules around these things. And residents have rights, like it or not. so the usual policy will be to allow a sexual relationship if a) no actual abuse seems to be a factor and b) if both parties are competent to agree to participate. there is NO drugging people out of sex drives (which is only correct, in my view). residents have a right to privacy for their sexual activities. so your family needs to do two things. 1. is call for a care conference at which the social worker will also be present and 2) talk to the ombudsman for longterm care.
and, you know, your Mom isn't there, is she? so your Dad has no more sex life ever unless he makes a relationship with another resident. and of course, most edlers in care aren't probably sexual performers, but they are lonely and largely untouched by other human beings.
now, your Mom could actually have conjugal visits with Dad there in privacy (that is a right)or she could bring him home for on closeness visits. she certainly cannot demand that the "other woman" be drugged up.
sorry, but that's actually pretty outrageous. although in a kind of prison, these folks are not prisoners serving out a lonely sentence for the rest of their lives.
Look up US Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor and google her name, her husband, his Alzheimer's and his "romance". maybe it will help your mother understand just where your father really is at.
Good luck!
Assisted living facilities have a fairly tight circle of obligations and rules around these things. And residents have rights, like it or not. so the usual policy will be to allow a sexual relationship if a) no actual abuse seems to be a factor and b) if both parties are competent to agree to participate. there is NO drugging people out of sex drives (which is only correct, in my view). residents have a right to privacy for their sexual activities. so your family needs to do two things. 1. is call for a care conference at which the social worker will also be present and 2) talk to the ombudsman for longterm care.
and, you know, your Mom isn't there, is she? so your Dad has no more sex life ever unless he makes a relationship with another resident. and of course, most edlers in care aren't probably sexual performers, but they are lonely and largely untouched by other human beings.
now, your Mom could actually have conjugal visits with Dad there in privacy (that is a right)or she could bring him home for on closeness visits. she certainly cannot demand that the "other woman" be drugged up.
sorry, but that's actually pretty outrageous. although in a kind of prison, these folks are not prisoners serving out a lonely sentence for the rest of their lives.
Look up US Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor and google her name, her husband, his Alzheimer's and his "romance". maybe it will help your mother understand just where your father really is at.
Good luck!
I realy hate to be the one to say this: THe facility is 100% responsible for seeing to it that those who cannot remember things arent put into those situations. However with budget cuts being what they are and everywhere the facility is short handed by at 10 people.
I realy hate to be the one to say this: THe facility is 100% responsible for seeing to it that those who cannot remember things arent put into those situations. However with budget cuts being what they are and everywhere the facility is short handed by at 10 people.
i'm afraid, nashota, it's not true that facilities have to control every part of people lives in facilities. i was an ombudsman for longterm care in oregon and part of our training was to get clear about these complex issues.
of course it runs up against puritanism and family control issues and even staff attitudes and everyone gets rigid about it. but having dementia doesn't mean you have no more rights or freedoms.
it does mean no-one should be abusing another resident, seuxally or otherwise. but it doesn't sound like Dad was abused. francesc says Dad has dementia, but how much dementia does he have if he can really re-tell what happened days before? that suggests he might be quite a bit less demented than family claims. in which case, i guess he did something he wanted to.
the family needs to call for a care conference, talk to the ombudsman and have the social worker involved in that care facility, not be writing to a website.
you might like to think that facilities should be prisons with rules people can be punished for breaking, but they aren't, thanks to the Ombudsman and thanks to the state and federal legislation which tries to preserve individual rights while also guaranteeing individual quality of care.
i'm afraid, nashota, it's not true that facilities have to control every part of people lives in facilities. i was an ombudsman for longterm care in oregon and part of our training was to get clear about these complex issues.
of course it runs up against puritanism and family control issues and even staff attitudes and everyone gets rigid about it. but having dementia doesn't mean you have no more rights or freedoms.
it does mean no-one should be abusing another resident, seuxally or otherwise. but it doesn't sound like Dad was abused. francesc says Dad has dementia, but how much dementia does he have if he can really re-tell what happened days before? that suggests he might be quite a bit less demented than family claims. in which case, i guess he did something he wanted to.
the family needs to call for a care conference, talk to the ombudsman and have the social worker involved in that care facility, not be writing to a website.
you might like to think that facilities should be prisons with rules people can be punished for breaking, but they aren't, thanks to the Ombudsman and thanks to the state and federal legislation which tries to preserve individual rights while also guaranteeing individual quality of care.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
The whole reason I wrote to a website to start with was to try and understand how other families have dealt with this, not get that kind of response ("the family needs to ... not be writing to a website").
We have met with the DON, Director of Memory Care, and the Executive Director of the facility about this situation. The ED is going to talk to his boss about this and see what experience they have had with this type of situation.
This leads me to ask this: when you have patients in a dementia unit how can you say if they really understand what sexual activities with others are OK and are not? How can you determine if there truly is consent or not? I understand that residents' rights must be upheld, but look at it from this standpoint: What if we were dealing with underage people? Even though the 15 year old girl said "yes, I willingly had sex with the 17 year old boy" the reality is that the 17 year old boy is charged with RAPE. There have been cases in our state of this happening. So if an elder person has the mind of a child due to dementia what happens? How do you handle it in light of this situation?
As for dad doing "something he wanted to" and concerning dad's condition "he might be quite a bit less demented than family claims", yes, I can agree with that. We often wonder exactly where dad is in terms of his mental faculties. I have told mom that it could well be that dad was completely cognizant of what he was doing at the time and has subsequently been attempting to cover for himself. Yes, at times dad is really not there, but other times he repeats things that we really thought he didn't have the first clue about.
The fact still remains that had the female resident not come into his room the whole incident would not have happened. At least not then. That's not to say it may not happen in the future. And it's also not to say it may still not happen again.
No, I do not at all think "facilities should be prisons with rules people can be punished for breaking". I do think that there are rules that should be enforced and in the case of memory care there needs to be more attention paid to residents' behavior and a little more care exerted when working in a memory care unit to know who is where and doing what. I personally have observed caregivers sitting still and not pursuing residents when they leave the group in the living room when they know full well that the resident who is leaving the area needs to be checked on.
This is certainly not an easy subject to deal with an I know there are no clear cut answers.
I do still appreciate any feedback I get.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
The whole reason I wrote to a website to start with was to try and understand how other families have dealt with this, not get that kind of response ("the family needs to ... not be writing to a website").
We have met with the DON, Director of Memory Care, and the Executive Director of the facility about this situation. The ED is going to talk to his boss about this and see what experience they have had with this type of situation.
This leads me to ask this: when you have patients in a dementia unit how can you say if they really understand what sexual activities with others are OK and are not? How can you determine if there truly is consent or not? I understand that residents' rights must be upheld, but look at it from this standpoint: What if we were dealing with underage people? Even though the 15 year old girl said "yes, I willingly had sex with the 17 year old boy" the reality is that the 17 year old boy is charged with RAPE. There have been cases in our state of this happening. So if an elder person has the mind of a child due to dementia what happens? How do you handle it in light of this situation?
As for dad doing "something he wanted to" and concerning dad's condition "he might be quite a bit less demented than family claims", yes, I can agree with that. We often wonder exactly where dad is in terms of his mental faculties. I have told mom that it could well be that dad was completely cognizant of what he was doing at the time and has subsequently been attempting to cover for himself. Yes, at times dad is really not there, but other times he repeats things that we really thought he didn't have the first clue about.
The fact still remains that had the female resident not come into his room the whole incident would not have happened. At least not then. That's not to say it may not happen in the future. And it's also not to say it may still not happen again.
No, I do not at all think "facilities should be prisons with rules people can be punished for breaking". I do think that there are rules that should be enforced and in the case of memory care there needs to be more attention paid to residents' behavior and a little more care exerted when working in a memory care unit to know who is where and doing what. I personally have observed caregivers sitting still and not pursuing residents when they leave the group in the living room when they know full well that the resident who is leaving the area needs to be checked on.
This is certainly not an easy subject to deal with an I know there are no clear cut answers.
I do still appreciate any feedback I get.
my only point there was that in these situations, they need to be worked out with the real community around your family member. because you, your Mom, your Dad and the community he's in is the only reality for all of you to usefully deal with. apologies for upsetting you -- not intended. You mention residents leaving the group and not being pursued by care staff. but they are living in a place (we have to hope) constructed basically as a safe environment from which they can't exit. they have the right to walk somewhere around if they choose. there's no reason for them to be treated like people without permission to do anything. there's nothing wrong in what you saw. appropriate care of people with dementia is secure freedom, not chasing them around all the time.
for further information, the question of whether people with dementia can make an informed consent has been featured in a number of court cases. courts tend to accept that in the moment, a person with dementia may be considered able to make a choice and that choice can be allowed.
These cases have arisen when families have tried to prevent various people from visiting. Say, no to the Baptist minister Dad likes, and family wants only the priest to visit. Courts don't like too much limitation of that kind because it abuses people's human rights, not just legal rights. So, I suspect a court might actually consider your Dad could make his own choice, but then again, maybe not.
perhaps it's your mother who needs the most support right now. and i'm sure you might be able to help her to see that these are the actions of dementia, not truly of the man she has been long married to.
again, i recommend you read the story of Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor and her husband with alzheimer's, to see how another family dealt with this very situation.
my only point there was that in these situations, they need to be worked out with the real community around your family member. because you, your Mom, your Dad and the community he's in is the only reality for all of you to usefully deal with. apologies for upsetting you -- not intended. You mention residents leaving the group and not being pursued by care staff. but they are living in a place (we have to hope) constructed basically as a safe environment from which they can't exit. they have the right to walk somewhere around if they choose. there's no reason for them to be treated like people without permission to do anything. there's nothing wrong in what you saw. appropriate care of people with dementia is secure freedom, not chasing them around all the time.
for further information, the question of whether people with dementia can make an informed consent has been featured in a number of court cases. courts tend to accept that in the moment, a person with dementia may be considered able to make a choice and that choice can be allowed.
These cases have arisen when families have tried to prevent various people from visiting. Say, no to the Baptist minister Dad likes, and family wants only the priest to visit. Courts don't like too much limitation of that kind because it abuses people's human rights, not just legal rights. So, I suspect a court might actually consider your Dad could make his own choice, but then again, maybe not.
perhaps it's your mother who needs the most support right now. and i'm sure you might be able to help her to see that these are the actions of dementia, not truly of the man she has been long married to.
again, i recommend you read the story of Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor and her husband with alzheimer's, to see how another family dealt with this very situation.
There should be medication for this, Maybe you should talk to his Doctor about this promblem for an option.But everyone is right I know where my mother is at, Two of the residents was removed because one lady kept getting in the bed with other people, The other person would hit people. Sorry I could not be much help. But it"s hard on you and your parent. GOOD LUCK!
There should be medication for this, Maybe you should talk to his Doctor about this promblem for an option.But everyone is right I know where my mother is at, Two of the residents was removed because one lady kept getting in the bed with other people, The other person would hit people. Sorry I could not be much help. But it"s hard on you and your parent. GOOD LUCK!
It seems to me that if this has been a "problem" involving this poor lady that a little more observation is needed by staff. That was a pretty flippant answer by the staff person I must say. someone's human rights does not mean that person has the right to intrude on someone else's space (dad's room) Now, dad may have been a willing participant but it seems there was a previous history with this lady. Are the lady's family aware of what is going on? Perhaps something to lessen her libido would be appropriate, has the subject been raised with her family? However, my philosophy has always been whatever two willing and consenting adults wish ....
It seems to me that if this has been a "problem" involving this poor lady that a little more observation is needed by staff. That was a pretty flippant answer by the staff person I must say. someone's human rights does not mean that person has the right to intrude on someone else's space (dad's room) Now, dad may have been a willing participant but it seems there was a previous history with this lady. Are the lady's family aware of what is going on? Perhaps something to lessen her libido would be appropriate, has the subject been raised with her family? However, my philosophy has always been whatever two willing and consenting adults wish ....
yes, but gma70, these folks have dementia. dementia means never being able to remember there's something you're supposed to be sorry about, right?
but i'll bet you're right in that the staff is failing to put into effect a program of redirection for someone who maybe (or maybe not) needs it. that indicates to me that adequate care plans are not being made for them.
that's exactly why the original person who started this discussion needs to get her family together with the care facility people. because that's where the whole issue in this case is.
flippant? wow,that's scary...
yes, but gma70, these folks have dementia. dementia means never being able to remember there's something you're supposed to be sorry about, right?
but i'll bet you're right in that the staff is failing to put into effect a program of redirection for someone who maybe (or maybe not) needs it. that indicates to me that adequate care plans are not being made for them.
that's exactly why the original person who started this discussion needs to get her family together with the care facility people. because that's where the whole issue in this case is.
flippant? wow,that's scary...
What idiot called your Mom regarding this incident? What an ass. Your father is still alive, and probably misses sexual contact. I agree that your Mom needs to be more involved with your Dad's needs, and if she is unwilling or unable, then let him live his life the best he can in these circumstances. My Great-Grandmother had a gentleman friend in her Nursing home located in St. Albans Vermont. She lived there the last 26 years of her life, and the home did nothing to discourage this. Grandma lived in a room with four other ladies, so there were very limited opportunity for personal contact, in fact, I don't know if they ever did, but they enjoyed each other's company until the man passed away. If Mom wants to have contact like this with your father, then help her get involved more with him, if she is unable or unwilling, then leave the man alone, and let him live his life, and find joy and companionship where he is able, and tell that home's staff to mind their own business, and don't dare drug your father How can one drug a person out of their humanity! What jerks are running this place?
What idiot called your Mom regarding this incident? What an ass. Your father is still alive, and probably misses sexual contact. I agree that your Mom needs to be more involved with your Dad's needs, and if she is unwilling or unable, then let him live his life the best he can in these circumstances. My Great-Grandmother had a gentleman friend in her Nursing home located in St. Albans Vermont. She lived there the last 26 years of her life, and the home did nothing to discourage this. Grandma lived in a room with four other ladies, so there were very limited opportunity for personal contact, in fact, I don't know if they ever did, but they enjoyed each other's company until the man passed away. If Mom wants to have contact like this with your father, then help her get involved more with him, if she is unable or unwilling, then leave the man alone, and let him live his life, and find joy and companionship where he is able, and tell that home's staff to mind their own business, and don't dare drug your father How can one drug a person out of their humanity! What jerks are running this place?
Thinking of our parents having Sex is a bit tough for most of us but thinking they are having "other" Partners is even tougher.
You use the Word "Inappropriate" Sex which indicates a Value Judgement. What I read didn't sound inappropriate but just a Sexual Experience.
If the Gentleman, clearly an Adult still has the Need and Desire to Engage in Sexual Activity, shouldn't he ?
One persons Opinion of ones Disablity and the Actual Disability seem to be the Issue.
I am both a National Disability & Civil Rights Advocate and I am Severely Disabled. A "Facility" is just another home for an Adult. They do not have the Right to Dictate Adult Behavior unless there is a Violation of the Law or a Complaint has been Shared with them.
Apparently the Gentleman is not Complaining, correct ?
Thinking of our parents having Sex is a bit tough for most of us but thinking they are having "other" Partners is even tougher.
You use the Word "Inappropriate" Sex which indicates a Value Judgement. What I read didn't sound inappropriate but just a Sexual Experience.
If the Gentleman, clearly an Adult still has the Need and Desire to Engage in Sexual Activity, shouldn't he ?
One persons Opinion of ones Disablity and the Actual Disability seem to be the Issue.
I am both a National Disability & Civil Rights Advocate and I am Severely Disabled. A "Facility" is just another home for an Adult. They do not have the Right to Dictate Adult Behavior unless there is a Violation of the Law or a Complaint has been Shared with them.
Apparently the Gentleman is not Complaining, correct ?
I think the discussion here has gotten more into the subject of sexuality among seniors and the disabled, and not about the somewhat more disturbing issue of a resident coming into another's room and exposing herself in a sexual manner. The father may have been consenting in the actions that followed; but I was wondering what might have happened if it was a male resident who walked into a woman's room and removed his pants. If the female resident has dementia, can she really be said to have the ability to consent?If she did have the ability to consent, why would she be in a dementia facility in the first place?
But I can understand why francesc would be disturbed. I'd be concerned about the larger issue of sexual assault in a situation like this. What if her father was eventually charged by the female resident's family with rape or molestation? Would the facility take the blame for this?
I think the discussion here has gotten more into the subject of sexuality among seniors and the disabled, and not about the somewhat more disturbing issue of a resident coming into another's room and exposing herself in a sexual manner. The father may have been consenting in the actions that followed; but I was wondering what might have happened if it was a male resident who walked into a woman's room and removed his pants. If the female resident has dementia, can she really be said to have the ability to consent?If she did have the ability to consent, why would she be in a dementia facility in the first place?
But I can understand why francesc would be disturbed. I'd be concerned about the larger issue of sexual assault in a situation like this. What if her father was eventually charged by the female resident's family with rape or molestation? Would the facility take the blame for this?
thank-you so much, Colonel, for your input into this issue!
as a longtime caregiver & educator in dementia issues, also a former Ombudsman for Longterm Care, i sometimes want to sit in a corner and whimper over the ways in which presumably well-meaning families think it's okay to trample on every human right when their elder has dementia. and, yes, of course, even more when sex is involved.
[by the way, Janet,actually the care facility is legally and license-wise required to report this to the family. that's why they do it. and, believe me, you don't really want care facilities deciding for themselves which rules to obey and which not ]
i read the issue described here as Dad was mutually involved and is less demented than the family asserts. in other words, he knew and he wanted.
now it's a social embarrassment and involves family sexuality made public -- oops.
it's pretty sad to read some of these posts though -- let's see, mandatory drugging of either party into compliance with family wishes, regarding human rights as "flippant".
this post was made to find out how and if a man, who had lost his home, family life and chance to consort with his own wife, could be forcibly controlled in this new environment.
state rules, thank goodness, are more humane than that. and also recognize the complexities of care issues, especially if they involve dementia.
wouldn't it be better for this family to be asking, how can we help this husband and father to feel less lonely, less abandoned and more able to settle away from home? is the wife now putting more energy into companionship with him to compensate him for the loss of his previous life? is she being kind, loving, supportive in attitude.
or does she just want to whomp that other hussy for stealing her man? is there a country-and-western song here. (now, THAT, my friends is an example of flippant)
i imagine active sexuality is the lesser part of all this. feeling abandoned, lost and lonely is maybe a bigger drive. but hey, as you say correctly, Colonel, "Apparently the gentleman is not complaining."
i'm so glad you joined us here to bring some more human decency and legal sanity into this over-heated discussion.
thank-you so much, Colonel, for your input into this issue!
as a longtime caregiver & educator in dementia issues, also a former Ombudsman for Longterm Care, i sometimes want to sit in a corner and whimper over the ways in which presumably well-meaning families think it's okay to trample on every human right when their elder has dementia. and, yes, of course, even more when sex is involved.
[by the way, Janet,actually the care facility is legally and license-wise required to report this to the family. that's why they do it. and, believe me, you don't really want care facilities deciding for themselves which rules to obey and which not ]
i read the issue described here as Dad was mutually involved and is less demented than the family asserts. in other words, he knew and he wanted.
now it's a social embarrassment and involves family sexuality made public -- oops.
it's pretty sad to read some of these posts though -- let's see, mandatory drugging of either party into compliance with family wishes, regarding human rights as "flippant".
this post was made to find out how and if a man, who had lost his home, family life and chance to consort with his own wife, could be forcibly controlled in this new environment.
state rules, thank goodness, are more humane than that. and also recognize the complexities of care issues, especially if they involve dementia.
wouldn't it be better for this family to be asking, how can we help this husband and father to feel less lonely, less abandoned and more able to settle away from home? is the wife now putting more energy into companionship with him to compensate him for the loss of his previous life? is she being kind, loving, supportive in attitude.
or does she just want to whomp that other hussy for stealing her man? is there a country-and-western song here. (now, THAT, my friends is an example of flippant)
i imagine active sexuality is the lesser part of all this. feeling abandoned, lost and lonely is maybe a bigger drive. but hey, as you say correctly, Colonel, "Apparently the gentleman is not complaining."
i'm so glad you joined us here to bring some more human decency and legal sanity into this over-heated discussion.
Thanks, I wasn't aware that the facility HAD to report sexual activity to the family. I think it was insensitive to inform the wife regarding such a sensitive issue, where's the right to privacy? One can't just shut of their human-ness because of their age or their residence. I certainly wouldn't want to be in a place that I could no longer have human contact if I should be able and so desire. Nor would I want to be told on like a naughty child. If there indeed was no harm, no foul, then why upset the man's wife and family with a personally embarassing issue that ended up causing his wife of 57 years any heartache. It's a pickle for sure. Safety of the resident(s) wasn't an issue, nor was it a health issue. I still think that if the adults have a right to have human contact, then a right to privacy should also be in force. Perhaps they should have made a note of it, and mentioned it to a social worker, and left the poor wife alone. I can't imagine how upseting this must have been for her, on her anniversary no less. But for the grace of G_D goes all of us. How would each of us want this to be handled? Away from home, forced into exile because of dementia, and just stop being a human man or woman. Dementia will take that soon enough. What a shame that simple human contact, comforting that it may be, is a source for all this upheaval. I still say that the facility should respect the resident's privacy and the relationships they forge in this new environment forced upon them.
Thanks, I wasn't aware that the facility HAD to report sexual activity to the family. I think it was insensitive to inform the wife regarding such a sensitive issue, where's the right to privacy? One can't just shut of their human-ness because of their age or their residence. I certainly wouldn't want to be in a place that I could no longer have human contact if I should be able and so desire. Nor would I want to be told on like a naughty child. If there indeed was no harm, no foul, then why upset the man's wife and family with a personally embarassing issue that ended up causing his wife of 57 years any heartache. It's a pickle for sure. Safety of the resident(s) wasn't an issue, nor was it a health issue. I still think that if the adults have a right to have human contact, then a right to privacy should also be in force. Perhaps they should have made a note of it, and mentioned it to a social worker, and left the poor wife alone. I can't imagine how upseting this must have been for her, on her anniversary no less. But for the grace of G_D goes all of us. How would each of us want this to be handled? Away from home, forced into exile because of dementia, and just stop being a human man or woman. Dementia will take that soon enough. What a shame that simple human contact, comforting that it may be, is a source for all this upheaval. I still say that the facility should respect the resident's privacy and the relationships they forge in this new environment forced upon them.
thank-you so much, Colonel, for your input into this issue!
[by the way, Janet,actually the care facility is legally and license-wise required to report this to the family.]
i read the issue described here as: Dad was mutually involved and is less demented than the family asserts. in other words, he knew and he wanted. now it's a social embarrassment and involves family sexuality made public -- oops.
Could family to be helping this husband and father to feel less lonely, less abandoned and more able to settle away from home? is his wife putting energy into being kind, loving, supportive in attitude? i imagine active sexuality is the lesser part of all this but hey, as you say correctly, Colonel, "Apparently the gentleman is not complaining."
i'm so glad you joined us here to bring some more human decency and legal sanity into this over-heated discussion.
thank-you so much, Colonel, for your input into this issue!
[by the way, Janet,actually the care facility is legally and license-wise required to report this to the family.]
i read the issue described here as: Dad was mutually involved and is less demented than the family asserts. in other words, he knew and he wanted. now it's a social embarrassment and involves family sexuality made public -- oops.
Could family to be helping this husband and father to feel less lonely, less abandoned and more able to settle away from home? is his wife putting energy into being kind, loving, supportive in attitude? i imagine active sexuality is the lesser part of all this but hey, as you say correctly, Colonel, "Apparently the gentleman is not complaining."
i'm so glad you joined us here to bring some more human decency and legal sanity into this over-heated discussion.
FYI - dad IS complaining that he does not want this woman anywhere near him and especially does not want her in his room. At this point we are concerned that dad is being blamed for the incident when he was IN HIS OWN ROOM and the female resident CAME IN HIS ROOM and SHE removed HER clothes.
FYI - dad IS complaining that he does not want this woman anywhere near him and especially does not want her in his room. At this point we are concerned that dad is being blamed for the incident when he was IN HIS OWN ROOM and the female resident CAME IN HIS ROOM and SHE removed HER clothes.
I guess he was complaining in American Sign Language, He had his fingers busy complaining? come on daughter, Think seriously about it, he had an interlude, He might have beleived it was your mom, who knows, but it's done and over, so unless you get a lawyer to advocate for your dad and sue these people for not watching dad and this lady, or allowing dad to act out like this, accept that they were adults doing what adults do. It's really rather normal, and the more people you get into the mix, the more complicated it is becoming. I maintain it's a personal issue between them, and if Dad does not want her in his room, he needs to contact staff to remove her when she does come in, and not join in the festivities.
I guess he was complaining in American Sign Language, He had his fingers busy complaining? come on daughter, Think seriously about it, he had an interlude, He might have beleived it was your mom, who knows, but it's done and over, so unless you get a lawyer to advocate for your dad and sue these people for not watching dad and this lady, or allowing dad to act out like this, accept that they were adults doing what adults do. It's really rather normal, and the more people you get into the mix, the more complicated it is becoming. I maintain it's a personal issue between them, and if Dad does not want her in his room, he needs to contact staff to remove her when she does come in, and not join in the festivities.
Olympia gal,
1.these are old, doddery, over-medicated, confused people with many medical conditions. 2. in a care facility, with residents, staff and visitors around all the time, an old gentleman rape would be unlikely. there's no viagra in care facilities.
a sex-happy elder is pretty soon identified. remember, that hyperactive old lady was known. her family have not been making rape allegations and ,with the documentation, they would have no case. a care facility must record every problem, have a case conference and must, by licensing requirements, have a care plan.
fear not, Olympia Gal,innocent old ladies are not being ravaged by wild old men in care facilities in any significant numbers, if indeed at all.
an old lady who is not interested starts yelling fit to bring all the duty staff charge running. but residents who develop relationships can do so. staff and family have to work out the details of how this will be managed. if family are intransigent, the resident will have to move out.
remember, this poster says this is her father's 2nd care place in a year -- that raises red flags to me. we dont know all this story at all.
Olympia gal,
1.these are old, doddery, over-medicated, confused people with many medical conditions. 2. in a care facility, with residents, staff and visitors around all the time, an old gentleman rape would be unlikely. there's no viagra in care facilities.
a sex-happy elder is pretty soon identified. remember, that hyperactive old lady was known. her family have not been making rape allegations and ,with the documentation, they would have no case. a care facility must record every problem, have a case conference and must, by licensing requirements, have a care plan.
fear not, Olympia Gal,innocent old ladies are not being ravaged by wild old men in care facilities in any significant numbers, if indeed at all.
an old lady who is not interested starts yelling fit to bring all the duty staff charge running. but residents who develop relationships can do so. staff and family have to work out the details of how this will be managed. if family are intransigent, the resident will have to move out.
remember, this poster says this is her father's 2nd care place in a year -- that raises red flags to me. we dont know all this story at all.
the reason it's his second care facility in a year is: an unexplained bruise the size of an orange on his upper arm. an unexplained toe nail injury that was so severe the toe nail fell off. A podiatrist examined his foot and said that the toe had been injured not once but TWICE. the former facility could not explain either of these injuries. our witnessing of another male resident violently shaking a female resident And not to mention the fact that dad was sitting in his wheelchair NEXT TO a caregiver, began falling forward and the caregiver let him hit the floor face-first. This is why we moved him. Any questions?
the reason it's his second care facility in a year is: an unexplained bruise the size of an orange on his upper arm. an unexplained toe nail injury that was so severe the toe nail fell off. A podiatrist examined his foot and said that the toe had been injured not once but TWICE. the former facility could not explain either of these injuries. our witnessing of another male resident violently shaking a female resident And not to mention the fact that dad was sitting in his wheelchair NEXT TO a caregiver, began falling forward and the caregiver let him hit the floor face-first. This is why we moved him. Any questions?
I was wondering why Dad had to be moved, too, unless the place was totally unsuitable, or it was to far from family. Perhaps Dad had his eye on the ladies then? Makes one wonder. No offence Daughter
I was wondering why Dad had to be moved, too, unless the place was totally unsuitable, or it was to far from family. Perhaps Dad had his eye on the ladies then? Makes one wonder. No offence Daughter
No, I do not feel I'm acting like the "naive daughter". I know my dad is male. I know males (and some females) have a habit of thinking with parts of their bodies other than their brains. At age 2-3 my two male children (on separate occasions) were asked at day care by female children who were also age 2-3 to pull down their pants. They did. And they were the ones who got into trouble for doing that, not the female children who made the request and kept their pants on. So yes, I know how males can be. I also know that males are NOT always the instigators in everything despite what some people might want to accuse them of.
The fact is I still fail to see how someone who has dementia can consent to this kind of situation. I just don't quite subscribe to the "if it feels good do it" attitude.
I also fail to see that the facility is doing it's job with the female resident, who is known to 1) be a wanderer 2) be sexually aggressive with other residents. As I've stated, we have asked several times both formally with the Executive Director, Director of Nursing, and the Director of Memory Care and informally with the Director of Memory Care and the care managers that should the female resident be seen heading for dad's room that she be redirected. It's not happening.
And the way the incident was written up it seems that dad was the instigator. I still say if the female resident was redirected from going into his room in the first place this wouldn't have happened.
We have told dad that should the female come in his room again he is to yell loudly; his room is just around the corner from the unit's office and kitchen. Hopefully he'll do this and it will help alleviate any further issues.
No, I do not feel I'm acting like the "naive daughter". I know my dad is male. I know males (and some females) have a habit of thinking with parts of their bodies other than their brains. At age 2-3 my two male children (on separate occasions) were asked at day care by female children who were also age 2-3 to pull down their pants. They did. And they were the ones who got into trouble for doing that, not the female children who made the request and kept their pants on. So yes, I know how males can be. I also know that males are NOT always the instigators in everything despite what some people might want to accuse them of.
The fact is I still fail to see how someone who has dementia can consent to this kind of situation. I just don't quite subscribe to the "if it feels good do it" attitude.
I also fail to see that the facility is doing it's job with the female resident, who is known to 1) be a wanderer 2) be sexually aggressive with other residents. As I've stated, we have asked several times both formally with the Executive Director, Director of Nursing, and the Director of Memory Care and informally with the Director of Memory Care and the care managers that should the female resident be seen heading for dad's room that she be redirected. It's not happening.
And the way the incident was written up it seems that dad was the instigator. I still say if the female resident was redirected from going into his room in the first place this wouldn't have happened.
We have told dad that should the female come in his room again he is to yell loudly; his room is just around the corner from the unit's office and kitchen. Hopefully he'll do this and it will help alleviate any further issues.
No offense taken, Janet. Or anyone else for that matter. It just seems to me that there are two sets of standards going on in society with this kind of thing. We need to protect our elders, but we need to give them freedoms too, but if they have the mind of a child as happens with dementia then what do we do? As I asked earlier: Is it OK for a sane-minded 14 year-old to be having sex with, say, a 17 year-old even if the 14 year-old insists that she agreed to? No, in our society regardless of what the 14 year-old says that is rape/sodomy/whatever the law says in your area.
So how can it be reconciled when there is a question of being mentally competent regardless of age? Oh, it's ok, that person is over 18.
Sorry, I just don't buy that. For anyone, not just my dad.
No offense taken, Janet. Or anyone else for that matter. It just seems to me that there are two sets of standards going on in society with this kind of thing. We need to protect our elders, but we need to give them freedoms too, but if they have the mind of a child as happens with dementia then what do we do? As I asked earlier: Is it OK for a sane-minded 14 year-old to be having sex with, say, a 17 year-old even if the 14 year-old insists that she agreed to? No, in our society regardless of what the 14 year-old says that is rape/sodomy/whatever the law says in your area.
So how can it be reconciled when there is a question of being mentally competent regardless of age? Oh, it's ok, that person is over 18.
Sorry, I just don't buy that. For anyone, not just my dad.
not only is janet funny, which is a huge plus, but she's right!
isn't your Dad in a wheelchair? unfortunately, elders in wheelchairs do injure their toes, because their driving is not always good. an unexplained bruise is too bad but not at all unusual in older people. there is absolutely nothing you've listed there that indicates neglect.
i would never think of moving someone for one bruise and one stubbed toe in a wheelchair user.
(as for the shaking, Yes, reprehensible, illegal and i'm assuming you reported it immediately to state licensing.)
i'm sorry but i can't picture a scenario in which a caregiver deliberately lets a resident fall while she can prevent it. but i CAN envision someone having to fall because a caregiver knows she can't catch that person.
do you know that caregiving is now the number ONE industry for back injuries in the whole USA. and of course those back injuries usually remain permanently a source of problem and even disablement.
i'm not trying to make excuses for those issues. i'm just wondering what you and your Mom are thinking when you use every imperfection as a reason to move your Dad again.
it's old people care. alas, things happen. three caregivers can be right in the room with someone and can't prevent a fall. elders experience big bruising from minor collisions. heck, they can touch a door, not hit it but just touch it, and have a big bruise because of it.
if it's not bruises, it's going to be sexy old ladies. meantime, your Dad is paying the price. every move from one facility to another causes a downturn in overall well-being. there is NO perfect place and that man is not getting a place he can settle down in and find some peace
and that, to me, is the saddest thing of all.
not only is janet funny, which is a huge plus, but she's right!
isn't your Dad in a wheelchair? unfortunately, elders in wheelchairs do injure their toes, because their driving is not always good. an unexplained bruise is too bad but not at all unusual in older people. there is absolutely nothing you've listed there that indicates neglect.
i would never think of moving someone for one bruise and one stubbed toe in a wheelchair user.
(as for the shaking, Yes, reprehensible, illegal and i'm assuming you reported it immediately to state licensing.)
i'm sorry but i can't picture a scenario in which a caregiver deliberately lets a resident fall while she can prevent it. but i CAN envision someone having to fall because a caregiver knows she can't catch that person.
do you know that caregiving is now the number ONE industry for back injuries in the whole USA. and of course those back injuries usually remain permanently a source of problem and even disablement.
i'm not trying to make excuses for those issues. i'm just wondering what you and your Mom are thinking when you use every imperfection as a reason to move your Dad again.
it's old people care. alas, things happen. three caregivers can be right in the room with someone and can't prevent a fall. elders experience big bruising from minor collisions. heck, they can touch a door, not hit it but just touch it, and have a big bruise because of it.
if it's not bruises, it's going to be sexy old ladies. meantime, your Dad is paying the price. every move from one facility to another causes a downturn in overall well-being. there is NO perfect place and that man is not getting a place he can settle down in and find some peace
and that, to me, is the saddest thing of all.
No, we are not looking to move him again. We do understand that old people bruise easily. I have been trained as a Certified Nurses' Assistant and do work as a CNA several times a month. My training was very specific about NOT trying to prevent a fall but rather to lessen a fall by helping to break someone's fall. In the case of dad falling out of the wheelchair it was a forward motion, much like when you brake hard in a car and your passenger involuntarily leans forward. It was not a case of the care giver not being able to catch dad; it seemingly was a case of then just not paying attention. And by the way, I have a bad back myself, so I NEVER try to catch anyone.
No, we are not looking to move him again. We do understand that old people bruise easily. I have been trained as a Certified Nurses' Assistant and do work as a CNA several times a month. My training was very specific about NOT trying to prevent a fall but rather to lessen a fall by helping to break someone's fall. In the case of dad falling out of the wheelchair it was a forward motion, much like when you brake hard in a car and your passenger involuntarily leans forward. It was not a case of the care giver not being able to catch dad; it seemingly was a case of then just not paying attention. And by the way, I have a bad back myself, so I NEVER try to catch anyone.
I have dealt with my mom being in a nursing home. The patients HAVE no rights - I don't know what all of you are talking about. Oh, wait, yes I do. This nursing home she was in was supposed to be one of the best in the area so I guess she had the right to lay in her own feces for HOURS after we had notified the staff (we ended up having to change her most of the time although that was against their rules), she had the right to have her things stolen out of her room because they couldn't/wouldn't keep residents out of other people's rooms, she had the right to go hungry because they would not come get her out of bed and in her wheelchair so she could go eat and we ended up trying to get her out of bed but THAT was against their rules. (When we weren't there,they would bring a tray and leave it where she could not reach it since she has Alzheimer's and was bedridden at that time.) I just hope that the woman's family, in this case, do not have him arrested for assault since he "supposedly" was over her and touching her. They very well could although, hopefully, the judge would throw it out after he was arrested. For the most part, nursing homes are a rip-off for people who can't look out for their own interests. My dad stayed at the home with Mom from 7 AM until around 8 pm and I came in after work. They baldfaced lied to both of us, said they were only required to check the patients every 2 hours (not change, but just check) and they wanted us to hire a caregiver to stay with her 24/7. I told them that was what we were paying them over $6000 a month for. Oh, well. Live and learn for sure.
I have dealt with my mom being in a nursing home. The patients HAVE no rights - I don't know what all of you are talking about. Oh, wait, yes I do. This nursing home she was in was supposed to be one of the best in the area so I guess she had the right to lay in her own feces for HOURS after we had notified the staff (we ended up having to change her most of the time although that was against their rules), she had the right to have her things stolen out of her room because they couldn't/wouldn't keep residents out of other people's rooms, she had the right to go hungry because they would not come get her out of bed and in her wheelchair so she could go eat and we ended up trying to get her out of bed but THAT was against their rules. (When we weren't there,they would bring a tray and leave it where she could not reach it since she has Alzheimer's and was bedridden at that time.) I just hope that the woman's family, in this case, do not have him arrested for assault since he "supposedly" was over her and touching her. They very well could although, hopefully, the judge would throw it out after he was arrested. For the most part, nursing homes are a rip-off for people who can't look out for their own interests. My dad stayed at the home with Mom from 7 AM until around 8 pm and I came in after work. They baldfaced lied to both of us, said they were only required to check the patients every 2 hours (not change, but just check) and they wanted us to hire a caregiver to stay with her 24/7. I told them that was what we were paying them over $6000 a month for. Oh, well. Live and learn for sure.
Francesc, I have just read the entire conversation from your initial queston 8 days ago. I am a little astounded at how a not so simple question can become an issue of judgementalism, naivte, denial, etc on the questioners part by others. I can appreciate the complexity of the situation and the concern you have for your father. I personally think the whole question got over analyzed. Say no to medication. Insist on protection for your father's privacy, and if you can take anything positive from the above messages do so, otherwise stop reading at this point! Best of luck to you and your family in this difficult and ongoing situation. GG
Francesc, I have just read the entire conversation from your initial queston 8 days ago. I am a little astounded at how a not so simple question can become an issue of judgementalism, naivte, denial, etc on the questioners part by others. I can appreciate the complexity of the situation and the concern you have for your father. I personally think the whole question got over analyzed. Say no to medication. Insist on protection for your father's privacy, and if you can take anything positive from the above messages do so, otherwise stop reading at this point! Best of luck to you and your family in this difficult and ongoing situation. GG
I was beginning to feel a little persecuted for even asking the question with the responses I got today. Lashing out at answers/comments I don't appreciate isn't and wasn't the answer. If I have offended anyone I sincerely apologize. Conversely I was looking for help and I don't feel that being belittled was helpful.
For all - I think at this point we should agree to disagree on points made (where there is disagreement) and end this thread at this point.
Thank everyone the comments....
I was beginning to feel a little persecuted for even asking the question with the responses I got today. Lashing out at answers/comments I don't appreciate isn't and wasn't the answer. If I have offended anyone I sincerely apologize. Conversely I was looking for help and I don't feel that being belittled was helpful.
For all - I think at this point we should agree to disagree on points made (where there is disagreement) and end this thread at this point.
Thank everyone the comments....
Thanks for your Kind Words Frena.
I too was an Ombudsman over Nursing Homes and these Issues can be Really Difficult on the Family and I Understand why.
Being Insensitive, Unkind or even Insulting to the Family with the Concern doesn't Benefit anyone.
My Heart goes out to all of the Family.
Thanks for your Kind Words Frena.
I too was an Ombudsman over Nursing Homes and these Issues can be Really Difficult on the Family and I Understand why.
Being Insensitive, Unkind or even Insulting to the Family with the Concern doesn't Benefit anyone.
My Heart goes out to all of the Family.
frena- 1.these are old, doddery, over-medicated, confused people with many medical conditions. 2. in a care facility, with residents, staff and visitors around all the time, an old gentleman rape would be unlikely. there's no viagra in care facilities.
Wow. This is how you really feel about the elderly who were in your charge?
I am glad I am able to look after my mother at home. I would not want her to be placed in a nursing home where she was thought of as being "old, doddery, over-medicated, confused." I agree with grannylove2, the sort of rights and freedoms being advocated here also seem to include the right to be abused and neglected. And I would suggest to francesc that she move her dad to another facility.
frena- 1.these are old, doddery, over-medicated, confused people with many medical conditions. 2. in a care facility, with residents, staff and visitors around all the time, an old gentleman rape would be unlikely. there's no viagra in care facilities.
Wow. This is how you really feel about the elderly who were in your charge?
I am glad I am able to look after my mother at home. I would not want her to be placed in a nursing home where she was thought of as being "old, doddery, over-medicated, confused." I agree with grannylove2, the sort of rights and freedoms being advocated here also seem to include the right to be abused and neglected. And I would suggest to francesc that she move her dad to another facility.
Francesc, I just wanted to post quickly and thank you for posting this topic. It's a good one and one that I think loads of folks may deal with during their caregiving journey.
Caring.com's forums are here for support. Of course that doesn't mean we all have to agree and we absolutely welcome different points of view. However, I really want to urge all members to avoid judgment and criticism. That's just not what we're about here. Remember that we're all, on some level, stressed about our loved one's well-being and often overwhelmed with the details of their care.
Thank you all for your understanding.
Missy Community Manager Caring.com
Francesc, I just wanted to post quickly and thank you for posting this topic. It's a good one and one that I think loads of folks may deal with during their caregiving journey.
Caring.com's forums are here for support. Of course that doesn't mean we all have to agree and we absolutely welcome different points of view. However, I really want to urge all members to avoid judgment and criticism. That's just not what we're about here. Remember that we're all, on some level, stressed about our loved one's well-being and often overwhelmed with the details of their care.
Thank you all for your understanding.
Missy Community Manager Caring.com
I just wanted to add two thoughts to this discussion. One is that in the field of intellectual disabilities, in which I work, the issue of consent is a highly debated, complex issue. It seems to me that any time a person has cognitive impairment consent will become a nuanced, complicated issue that needs to be addressed with the individual's abilities and the specific context in mind. No easy answers.
Secondly, my father recently had an experience in his assisted living facility in which he developed a close relationship with a woman resident. I don't think it was very sexual but it was quite close and romantic and caring. Unfortunately, his thinking became somewhat delusional and he began to imagine that she was someone from his past, that she had been kicked out of her house and had nowhere to go and had to sleep in his room, and that people would take her away from him. He also began to hoard garbage, which he hadn't done since he moved there, and would grab the woman's arm to make her come to his room, and refuse to let staff take her for a shower. We realized that although this relationship may have been comforting for both of them in the beginning it became a source of agitation and psychological discomfort for him. We strategized ways the staff could divert his attention from her at the end of meals and lead her away to reduce his sense of control over her. This has been working very well, and he is much less agitated and happier and is forgetting all about the period of time they spent together. So my point with this long winded message is that we had to evaluate consent not just by what they each said (yes, we want to be together) but by how it affected them. Reading between the lines, I guess. It became clear that neither was consenting to what was real, and that he was beginning to violate her rights, and cause himself suffering. Hope that helps a little.
I just wanted to add two thoughts to this discussion. One is that in the field of intellectual disabilities, in which I work, the issue of consent is a highly debated, complex issue. It seems to me that any time a person has cognitive impairment consent will become a nuanced, complicated issue that needs to be addressed with the individual's abilities and the specific context in mind. No easy answers.
Secondly, my father recently had an experience in his assisted living facility in which he developed a close relationship with a woman resident. I don't think it was very sexual but it was quite close and romantic and caring. Unfortunately, his thinking became somewhat delusional and he began to imagine that she was someone from his past, that she had been kicked out of her house and had nowhere to go and had to sleep in his room, and that people would take her away from him. He also began to hoard garbage, which he hadn't done since he moved there, and would grab the woman's arm to make her come to his room, and refuse to let staff take her for a shower. We realized that although this relationship may have been comforting for both of them in the beginning it became a source of agitation and psychological discomfort for him. We strategized ways the staff could divert his attention from her at the end of meals and lead her away to reduce his sense of control over her. This has been working very well, and he is much less agitated and happier and is forgetting all about the period of time they spent together. So my point with this long winded message is that we had to evaluate consent not just by what they each said (yes, we want to be together) but by how it affected them. Reading between the lines, I guess. It became clear that neither was consenting to what was real, and that he was beginning to violate her rights, and cause himself suffering. Hope that helps a little.
we thought medication was the answer to dads problem but its not that simple dad has had dementia 7 years and is very active lives on his own but has a lot of care off me and my hubby but the last few months dad has been accused of touching people and being verbally rude hes gone sex mad and has even been phoning sex chat lines believing these people are coming to his house but when he does these things and gets asked about them he has no memory of it he says we thought the drug would solve all the upset but after 4 weeks in hospital we ve been told it causes problems with your liver and if you already have problems with your liver its dangerous so drugs are not the answer for everyone you need lots of tests before this drug can be given to you as for my dad we managed to get him out of the mental health unit (just) but im not sure for how long hes already forgot that if he carrys on with the sex talk he will have to go back possibly for good if you can give any advice please do i am frightened to death of dad going into care i have worked in afew apart from that i cannot stand the thought of anyone being in a home never mind dad all this is ruining my life don t know what to do tried all i can to help dad worst of all sometimes he thinks i want rid of him and tells me he does not want to know me thanks for reading
we thought medication was the answer to dads problem but its not that simple dad has had dementia 7 years and is very active lives on his own but has a lot of care off me and my hubby but the last few months dad has been accused of touching people and being verbally rude hes gone sex mad and has even been phoning sex chat lines believing these people are coming to his house but when he does these things and gets asked about them he has no memory of it he says we thought the drug would solve all the upset but after 4 weeks in hospital we ve been told it causes problems with your liver and if you already have problems with your liver its dangerous so drugs are not the answer for everyone you need lots of tests before this drug can be given to you as for my dad we managed to get him out of the mental health unit (just) but im not sure for how long hes already forgot that if he carrys on with the sex talk he will have to go back possibly for good if you can give any advice please do i am frightened to death of dad going into care i have worked in afew apart from that i cannot stand the thought of anyone being in a home never mind dad all this is ruining my life don t know what to do tried all i can to help dad worst of all sometimes he thinks i want rid of him and tells me he does not want to know me thanks for reading
Hey ape-
I'm sorry about your situation. Yes, it is an extremely stressful situation and not only for you but for the people around your dad who are subjected to this behavior.
Perhaps you can contact the phone company and have sex-line numbers blocked from being dialed on your father's phone.
I wish I had an answer for you, but I don't. The only thing that we have been able to accomplish is ever so slightly better cooperation from the assisted living staff to guide the other resident away from my dad and ensure his door is locked when he is in his room. (at least that's what we're being told is being done to control the situation....)
At this point we (mom and I) really have questions in our mind about whether my dad was a willing participant in the incident. As time goes on we are both beginning to believe that this was truly something he wanted to do and perhaps had been participating in for a while until a caregiver discovered it. We are finding that dad, in spite of being diagnosed with dementia, truly does remember things that he does and seemingly lies about what he does remember and doesn't remember.
As far as putting someone in a facility - my mom was dead-set against it until dad began not trying to help himself and seemingly purposely "falling" in the floor only to lay there and yell for mom to "pick him up", which she cannot do.
And we have found that dad does enjoy being around other people there and participating in activities with the other residents; he had no company at home.
I realize the facilities don't give the care we all want for our elders, but many of us get to a point of burnout. When that happens we are simply unable to appropriately care for our charges much less ourselves.
As a sort of self-defense and a method of self-preservation mom has begun visiting dad less than she did. This has been at my encouragement; she doesn't need to see what she considers day-to-day failings in the care he is receiving (bed not made properly, face and ears not cleaned thoroughly, etc.). I only hope at this point she is beginning to realize that care given by anyone but herself will be imperfect but the bottom line is this: is dad happy, relatively healthy for his condition, and well-fed?
I do continue to wonder, however, how it is that we can take away basically all of the rights of our demented elders (and young people for that matter) through power of attorney for financial, health care, etc., we force them to stop going where and when they want to go, we narrow or remove their choices for dress, food, and living arrangements all under the guise of what's best for them yet they still have "rights" to behave as they wish even if it means committing adultery at the objection of the custodial spouse.... (I'm probably gonna get it for that comment....)
Hugs to you and take care of yourself first- Frances
Hey ape-
I'm sorry about your situation. Yes, it is an extremely stressful situation and not only for you but for the people around your dad who are subjected to this behavior.
Perhaps you can contact the phone company and have sex-line numbers blocked from being dialed on your father's phone.
I wish I had an answer for you, but I don't. The only thing that we have been able to accomplish is ever so slightly better cooperation from the assisted living staff to guide the other resident away from my dad and ensure his door is locked when he is in his room. (at least that's what we're being told is being done to control the situation....)
At this point we (mom and I) really have questions in our mind about whether my dad was a willing participant in the incident. As time goes on we are both beginning to believe that this was truly something he wanted to do and perhaps had been participating in for a while until a caregiver discovered it. We are finding that dad, in spite of being diagnosed with dementia, truly does remember things that he does and seemingly lies about what he does remember and doesn't remember.
As far as putting someone in a facility - my mom was dead-set against it until dad began not trying to help himself and seemingly purposely "falling" in the floor only to lay there and yell for mom to "pick him up", which she cannot do.
And we have found that dad does enjoy being around other people there and participating in activities with the other residents; he had no company at home.
I realize the facilities don't give the care we all want for our elders, but many of us get to a point of burnout. When that happens we are simply unable to appropriately care for our charges much less ourselves.
As a sort of self-defense and a method of self-preservation mom has begun visiting dad less than she did. This has been at my encouragement; she doesn't need to see what she considers day-to-day failings in the care he is receiving (bed not made properly, face and ears not cleaned thoroughly, etc.). I only hope at this point she is beginning to realize that care given by anyone but herself will be imperfect but the bottom line is this: is dad happy, relatively healthy for his condition, and well-fed?
I do continue to wonder, however, how it is that we can take away basically all of the rights of our demented elders (and young people for that matter) through power of attorney for financial, health care, etc., we force them to stop going where and when they want to go, we narrow or remove their choices for dress, food, and living arrangements all under the guise of what's best for them yet they still have "rights" to behave as they wish even if it means committing adultery at the objection of the custodial spouse.... (I'm probably gonna get it for that comment....)
Hugs to you and take care of yourself first- Frances