People are afraid not to follow their docters advise.They swallow any advise or pills they are prescribed. I have always found that in the surgery,doctors behave as superior beings ,The only doctors that behave normally,are the ones that write books, then they do seem to possess superior knowledge.May be it is that only then,they have time to think?
I hear ya octoman! I've been at my wits end with frustration when my parents are dealing with serious health issues. Sometimes I want to scream, "HELLO??! Are you listening to us?" But with that said, I do feel like there are a couple of principles in play.
1. They do the best they can at that given moment. When our loved one is on the table in front of them, all they can deal with is the here and now because their hands are literally inside their body.
2. I tend to find that surgeons...well most specialists actually...practice medicine only with regard to the specific issue they're addressing. In my experience, the coordination of care has been soooooooooooo badly lacking. I mean I get that an ear, nose and throat doc (otolaryngotomist, I believe) isn't a lung specialist, but shouldn't he consult with mom's pulmonologist before doing surgery to assist in her breathing? IMO, yes...he should. Will he? It's doubtful.
3. My parents' generation treated docs like all-knowing gods. Their word was law and you don't question them. God help these same docs as they deal with my generation because we tend to question everything!
4. More than ever, I think it's up to us, as caregivers, to gather as much information as possible about whatever we're dealing with and meet with the doctors armed with questions/concerns/suggestions. It's pretty rare you get a doc who will take the time to really educate you on a condition unless you demand it. And we all know the face time you get with them is limited, so if you can walk in with a knowledge base, the more productive your time will be together. S/he won't have to cover the basics.
Hope some of that helped! And thankfully, I've come across a handful of really wonderful doctors, so when I started to get really jaded, I remember them.
I'm glad my mom takes care of this part of things. She takes Granny to her appointments and goes in to the exam room with her.
Though I end up doing the internet research later, so they have a better understanding of things.
Last summer, Granny was given a script for some Physical Therapy for the arthritis in her knees. She did not do it. Keep in mind I was still working out at the Physical Therapy center, so she could have just come with me, and they would have taught me how to do them at home.
To continue:
I don't think all doctors are God. I've had a couple of negative experiences.
- My former doctor just did not listen! I complained about hearing loss for 4 years (it's wax, buy an earwax kit). Finally got a new job, health insurance, went to a new doc...he sent me to an ENT, and I got hearing aids.
- Let's just say my car accident two years ago....not a single person in that hospital would listen to me or my family. Everything I said was misconstrued, and some diagnoses were made on assumptions. My mom said she almost went off on a couple of the docs.
Missy You are in the same world as me, Four years ago I went to a liver transplant surgeon for a second opinion about a stomach cancer another surgeon wanted to treat by removing my stomach;and I took my list of questions,like good boy(I was 75 at the time)he told me he was not interested in my list,he was going to tell me his veiw that he not only wanted to removed my stomach he would investigate the growths in my liver as well,this was my best option!I told him I had not got the stomach for it,and I have never looked back.What gets me is did you know that there are 260,000 people diagnosed with cancer in the UK every year and only 50 % servive longer than 5 years,so 130,000 die every year and they act as if they are your only chance and they never told me I could live without their tender loving care,of rip burn and poisoning, though there was a remarkable case on caring.com where a fellow whose cancer had spread so surgery was not an option was cured with chemotherapy it shrunk the cancers away (iI was refused chemo) only for people who cannot have surgery! arn't they disgusting. I just noticed you are a moderator what a nice person you are .I am a very critical person myself I guess it shows
You know what makes me mad?
My dad went into the hospital. For THREE MONTHS they could not even make a diagnosis. He finally died. No autopsy, no definitive cause of death. He was only 52.
I guess the lesson learned is that you weigh what a doc says with other things rather than put full weight on it. I'm a firm believer in finding a doctor you jive with. While this isn't an aging issue, I once took my daugther to an ENT who may have been extremely knowledgeable and proficient, but did NOT mesh with my personality. After our first appointment, I made a follow-up appointment with another doctor in the same practice and was unapologetic about saying "I don't feel he's the best fit for our family." And if you feel like questions aren't being taken seriously or answered, maybe it's time to find a new doctor.
I never want to come off as anti-medicine. Unfortunately, our family has experienced a lot of sickness and loss. I've seen doctors do a lot of amazing things for those I love. It's all just been a huge lesson in how to get the most of interactions with them and their staff.
Oh Missy you are so sensible .Though I sound anti-medicine I have found that I can learn so much more from medical books than doctors,At presant I am reading a brilliant book by Dr Brian Roet "Positive action for Heath and Wellbeing"He opens is first chapter with a quote from Hippocrates "It is more important to know what sort of person has a disease than to know what sort of disease a person has"He believes our atitudes have a great of effect on our health. I have tried many different doctors all were very poor.my wife is a believer in doctors and she is now in constant pain and after many operations she is now disabled,she is on so many pills. She now has two new knee joints but three prolapsed disks caused by the operations stopped any benefit from the new joints .We have been very unfortunate with our doctors.
"It is more important to know what sort of person has a disease than to know what sort of disease a person has"
That's profound! I'll have to remember it! And I'm so sorry that your wife is suffering with crippling back pain. I encourage you and your wife to keep searching for answers.
Thank You Missy for your sympathy for my wifes ill's,I am glad you saw the profoundness of the quote,My wife had huge swollen ankles and feet I was amazed the doctors at the hospital and the local surgery never bothered with them apart from water tablets which made continually go to the loo.Last Christmas she was rushed to hospital(where she had her purse stolen,and also someone tried to smother her) with a kidney infection and had 5 weeks in bed by which time and her swelling had gone down,but it was soon was back to its worst again,but my tiny mind put 2 and 2 together and I raised the base of her bed so her legs were up in the air,and the swelling was greatly reduced,next I bought her a new mobility chair it is called a therapy chair it vibrates her legs sort exercises them and now her legs and feet are starting to look normal ,My wife had a mobility chair that massaged,her but it had had no effect,( we part exchange it)so your advise was good,"seek and you will find"another fine quote. .I hope the chair will aid the back if not we will continue seeking and finding.Notice no doctor helped?
Hi Missy yesterday my daughter and two of grandchildren were involved in a road accident they where taken to hospital x-rayed and treated and looked after.Their car was a writeoff and they were battered and bruised but otherwise ok.Last Christmas when my wife collapsed,the response was great a phone call and a para-medic arrived after a series of tests he called an ambulance and she was soon in a hospital ward.It was down hill from there,but it was so efficent up till then.so it is not all bad.
My father is 93, and all things considering, he is doing very well. He is currently in a rehab facility, following major surgery. He has a number of health issues (e.g., macrodegeneration--both dry and wet--hearing impairment, need for wheelchair, etc.). Daddy sees his family doctor (really an intern) as God. He really does. You cannot even discuss with him alternative doctors/treatments. For example, he has MVP, as do I. Mine is more serious than his, and following current procedures, I no longer take antibiotics before medical procedures. When I found out that Daddy was still on antibiotics for MVP, he would not even stay in the room to hear the reasons why he should no longer be on these medications. This is just one example. This same doctor is not even interested in pursuing the potentially grim reasons regarding Daddy's significant speech loss (over a very short period of time). This worries me so. I know I cannot discuss it with either the doctor or Daddy, and my sister (his caretaker) will not follow through either. I am several hundred miles away, which by definition, limits my influence. Daddy needs to be seen by some specialists. His doctor is a do-nothing and my father's extremely positive opinion of him will never change. My father may die before his time and there is nothing that I can do.
Yes there is the Doctors veiw,which is I have kept him alive for 93 years .and my veiw I am not interested in just being alive but the quality of life,which does not seem important to some doctors my wife is alive under doctors care but I could not put up with her quality of life, even she finds it difficult I did advise her not to go down the route she took years back,but she prefered the doctors veiw.she said one day "I think I will give up taking the pills"I told her she could not do that ,it is a long term job,so she is still on the digiet of pills,she does not do long term,so you see you are not alone in your problem.
Missy. It is three months since I started this query ,two months since my ,or any replies. I have progressed a lot since then, both mentally and physically. I now realised it is my experiences that have made me .the way I am. There has be people like me who do not have treatment for cancer ,so you can compare results Otherwise we will be behaving like leemings.leaping over the treatment cliff. Thank you for your nice past comments,they encouraged me.Ken. .
Further to this reply my wife has been away at her sisters,for a month.she has taken her inhand. she has lost over a stone in weight,her swollen legs,feet and body have been reduced to normal. she has been taken swimming,massaged and been given tender loving care.when they are together the air is full laughter.they love the same things. I sometimes wonder if she wiil return.but she believes marrage is for life. A life sentance?I better get my act together. The doctor is impressed.with my wifes condition.some thing she was unable to do anything for. Of course it is not in her job discription;
Octoman Sir, I am finding it somewhat difficult to understand from your postings what your medical status is. Have you decided not to have the surgery that the doctors have recommeded as treatment for your stomach cancer? Was surgery the only treatment option they offered you? Or did the doctors say your cancer was untreatable even with surgery? May I also ask what kind of insurance you have? At your age I assume you have Medicare. Do you have Medicaid or private insurance also? Is your insurance through Managed Care?
I am wondering and asking these questions because I have been a nurse for more than 35 yrs. I work for a Managed Care organization for all the members who have Medicare. Every member has their own case manager and I do not understand why you do not have a RN through your health insurance coverage, no matter what it is; Medicare, Medicaid and/or private insurance who is working with you to help get you the health care you want and need. Unless you are refusing care.
Yes, I have found that when doctors write books they show much more depth and understanding of the human condition and seem much more humane and compassionate over all. Perhaps many doctors know this and that is why they take the time to write books - this way they can make up for the lack of humanity that is generally found in the medical world today. Medicine was never intended to be a business but rather an art form. It is so crucial for people to be true healers if they want to go into the medical profession. Getting into this field because that is where the jobs are is unethical. It takes time and special care to treat anyone and especially the elderly. Elders cannot be treated as if they are on an assembly line. Time spent and dignity is everything to them. May God protect them from the current medical world.
CATM I have just seen you questioare ,after 15 days.First I am English, In free treetmentland . My story is a winding path.I will give you a short melodrama 1st act stomach cancer diagnosed treament decided. Keyhole surgery just cancer removal,agreed. 2nd act wheeled into surgery,surgeon ready with knife.good. 3rd act find out no keyhole surgery.subtotal stomach removal instead. 4th act told surgeon where to stick his knife. 5th.act week later talking with surgeon.scan shows my cancer had spread to liver and kidneys.no real hope.chemotherapy to be used.two years passed no chemo .expensive stuff to waste on me;but I did not die ,as they foretold. go have PET scan liver kidney cancer had got tired of waiting for chemo. and fell asleep well not active.stomach cancer active. 6th act.Great now you can have the surgery you did not want. I said I do not want you to do it you might remove my bladder by mistake. 7th act Get second opinion,liver cancer expert wants to go into the liver as well as remove stomach.he explained I might not survive the operation,and also I cannot have the expensive chemo it's not an option if you can have surgery. 8th act So it is the Knife or nothing . I choose nothing.and 7 years on I am happy annoying people with my humour and enjoying life on a full stomach. Most people cannot understand me,including my wife.hope if you are still awake and have done so..all my love Ken .
My mother fell and broke her hip @ 87 prior to that the last time she was in the hospital was when she took my brother to it 45 years earlier to register him after giving birth to him at home, alone. One of the emergency room physicians commented that the reason she had been so healthy for so long is that she had kept away from doctors. I agree. I believe that organized medicine keeps our allopathic drs uneducated and uninterested in really helping people. My husband had severe back pain, I sent him to a dr that diagnosed him with severe osteoporosis and told him that he had the spine of an 80 year old woman and that his vertebrae were crushing themselves every time he moved. My mother was 83 and his spine sure didn't look like hers, she has scoliosis. He wanted to put my husband on Fosamax. Providentially for us, I had 3 days before received a e-mail newsletter that warned of the dangers of bis-phosphonate drugs that they can lead to osteoporosis, or jaw bone rot. I took him to my dr that prescribes my bio-identical hormones and they put him on testosterone and he is doing very well. His back pain was from 2 herniated discs for which he had surgery and as progressed very well. I'm not opposed to surgery or prescriptions if that is what is truly needed but I don't like drs that lie and that are nothing more than government protected pill pushers.
The above dr also wanted my husband to file a claim against his work comp insurance, which is fraud, the back pain resulted from when he was thrown from a horse as a child. This dr was touted as one who had a more holistic approach, I think he was wholly driven by greed. Which is scarier a dr that doesn't know what he's doing (wrong diagnosis) or greedy, (prescribing an un-needed drug or bilking the insurance co).
