Gambing addiction

Hello,

I'm so sorry to hear of your dad's gambling addiction.  It must be really hard to watch him be so destructive. 

Unfortunately, Medicare does not cover assisted living costs.  You can read more about that here.  He may qualify for Medicaid, which is needs based.  However, in order for Medicaid to pay for longterm care costs, they will have to be deemed medically necessary. 

Do you think that, perhaps, rehab would be helpful?  Or maybe a Gambler's Anonymous meeting?

I know exactly what your goin thru. My mother has the same addiction with a VERY similiar story.

She lost all equity in her home, has filed for brupcy twice. Owes almost everybody she knows. Ironically, she has been sober from alcohol for over 30 yrs, & still goes to AA mtgs. Fortunately she has a govt pension from the post ofc, but still remaining is the addiction. They say an addiction is an addiction, meaning it doesnt matter what the drug is (including gambling of course). I agree up to the point of early recovery. With drugs/alcohol you can go to the hospital, detox there, and then get placed in rehab for 30, 90, or up to 24 months at many rehabs or TC's. The difference with gambling is you really can't "detox" in a facility that I know of. Gamblers Anonymous is a good start. Theres a few long-term programs for drugs/alcohol/crime etc. One is called Delancey Street Foundation located in San Francisco. It doesnt cost anything. ITs long term (2yrs) and is the best in the country.

We are in a similar situation with my MIL. She has run through easily $250k in 2 years in gambling - has had to sell her car, and is potentially facing eviction/homelessness from her low-income-senior-housing complex. What are the legal options to try to keep her social security income going to pay her rent: an irrevocable financial power of attorney? Conservatorship? I can't seem to find any online resources for either of these in the cases of extreme and proven addiction -- but there must be cases as examples and/or specialists in this arena? (She is in FL) She has windows of hope where she seems willing to accept help -- but then has proven to insist on getting control of her $$$ back (which she then gambles away.) We're trying to protect her from herself at this point -- Any help / advice would be welcomed! Thanks.

I'm sorry to hear that both of you are dealing with such a tough situation with your loved one's gambling :( I think it's an especially difficult problem because, like the poster abover me stated, they stay convinced that they can get the money back "any time now".

I would definitely look into the option of trying to get a Power of Attorney of finances - of course, the huge challenge there is getting your loved one to sign off on it. You could also look into the option of "involuntarily committment" into a rehab facility. The challenge there is that a doctor or other licensed professional has to declare that the person is a danger to themselves or others, something that's much harder to prove when the addiction is gambling and not drugs or alcohol. :( I would think though that if it's gotten as far as possible homelessness, any arguement could be made for it, though.

Keep us updated and come back to post or vent anytime! Lisa

Thanks for the good thoughts. I have done some more research with a laywer. For others facing the same struggle, a durable financial power of attorney might be a short term option, but is revokable at any time by the gambler or drug addict.

Because we are not trying to protect any existing assets (*there are none left, just a mountain of debt), an irrevokable trust account is not an option (though if you catch the problem earlier, this might work for you).

We have only a trickle of Social Security income left to handle -- Social Security does NOT Recognize a power of attorney, rather wants to make their own judgments - which in this case, while more paperwork, is a good thing, because it enables us to make the case to Social Security that she is a danger to herself - risking illness and homelessness by choosing to gamble rather than pay her basic living expenses with her limited SS income. The SSA Program is called "Representative Payee" program and you can easily find info online.

Our only hope now is that we can present enough documentation to SSA to get them to identify us as a representative payee. We may still be able to get her counseling with the remaining SSA money monthly. She may be too far gone to recover from her addiction, but at least we can try to keep a roof over her head. Thanks to all for the good wishes: protecting someone from their own demons is an exhausting project...

Also -- if you happen to be in Florida, the Florida Council on Compulsive Gambling does have some resources, including a workbook series, that they will provide free of charge. Every little bit helps.

I have a Payee Account for my husband. Talk to your SS office and find out what their requirements are for you to be the payee for your parent.

Actually, gamblers go through withdrawal when they enter a treatment program, similar to alcoholics and drug addicts. So, yes, there is a "detox" going on. That's a part of the "an addiction is an addiction is an addiction". There ARE many similarities in behavior of the active addict, no matter the tool of the addiction. The inpatient program I'm familiar with in Minnesota is a 30 day program. FYI, it is not unusual for an alcoholic to switch addictions, especially to gambling. In some cases, the patient in treatment for gambling has been court ordered if they have broken a law, such as forged signatures on checks, stolen money, etc. Hopefully that won't happen to your mother but there are many gamblers whose disease progresses to that stage.

Don't give up on her. Sometimes interventions work. Has that been tried?

I'm sending you a hug and will send a prayer for you, too.

Thank you very much for the information, especially for the referral to the Florida Council on Compulsive Gambling. Actually, I wonder if I should do nothing, let my mother continue gambling every penny away, and continue borrowing money at 150% interest from friends? Should I just leave her alone and take care of myself by attending gam-anon meetings?

Sincerely,

Gilbert

Hello. I'm now faced with the dilemma of having a mother who is gambling everything away. Part of me thinks that there is nothing that I can do or say that will lead her to stop her gambling. I should just let her "lose everything." I also think that she needs to "hit bottom" before she will admit the need for help with her addiction. Should I just take care of myself, go to gam-anon meetings, and "distance myself with love"? Has anyone tried this approach?

Thank you,

Gilbert

Gilbert: we tried this, until she had literally lost everything (deeply in debt) and was facing eviction. It was only the idea of homelessness that forced her to wake up. Honestly, for us this was the only way... but now that she HAS hit bottom and realizes what a mess she's in, I know she wishes she had been able to stop sooner. We do wish we had intervened earlier with other relatives, to LET them know what was going on and to ask them NOT to enable her with additional funding. We should have made it harder for her to lie to everyone...

Unfortunately, that would have taken a 'fight' that we weren't able to handle at that point (she's in FL, we're in MN).

Everyone's scenario is different, everyone's "bottom" is different. She had gambled away both of her cars and it didn't faze her at all. Only the idea of homelessness was a wakeup call. Now that she literally has no money for anything other than minimal food and a roof over her head, she wishes things were different... but we felt that the fight before that point would have likely resulted in a 'you're just protecting your inheritance" argument slapped onto us (which wasn't remotely the case - we need/want for nothing - but you know how that goes.)

If you or your mother are in FL, check out Triangle Resolutions in Tampa - the counselor there was VERY helpful.

Either way - distancing yourself with love is the first step either way -- you NEED to take care of yourself first in order to have any hope of helping her. Good luck to you -- we're on a similar path, and it is a very challenging one.

Thank you for the reminder of "distancing yourself with love." I need to remember that I'm not being a heartless beast when I don't immediately react to my mother's "emergencies" that are caused by her gambling addiction.

addictions are horrific and if you are not careful, he can ruin your financial stability as well. Most states and major cities have homeless shelters. They are not comfortable and that is a good thing. Do not offer any kind of financial assistance unless he himself seeks out gambling addiction treatment. It will not be meaningful to him unless he sees that he needs it and seeks it out for himself. I don't know how much SS he gets but once he stops the gambling he may be able to afford a cheap apt or a room with a roommate. If he is successful you may consider paying his elec bill if he needs it or bring over a bag of groceries if he needs it but never give him money directly, if you pay a utility, pay the bill directly to the company, never give him money.

Are you joking? Don't give this man a dime. Give him food, shelter, whatever it takes to take care of his personal needs, but not one dime. Ever. End of story.
Would you give an alcoholic or a heroin addict money?? Same difference.

You're not heartless, in fact. It's the opposite. It's just tough love which is all addicts can understand, really. Enabling them is just a vicious circle, it goes no where. It just drags you under with them eventually.

If you love them you won't give them the ammo for their weapon.

You just get them as "right" as you can and love them from a distance. It's painful, and sad fact but not your fault.

I just found this site and maybe someone can have some answers for me. I agree not to give them a dime. Money feeds the addiction. My husband of 36 years lost his job due to the economy and the money from his severance pay runs out in 5 months. It pays the bills. My income will not pay the mortgage. He has been collecting unemployment for 6 months, and will get it for a long while. He keeps all the unemployment for himself to gamble with and pay for gas, cigaretts, etc. How can I get his unemployment money? Is there power of attorney for that? Otherwise, in 5 months we will be in a mess and unable to pay the house payment. He has been saying he will get a job soon, for the past 6 months. I know that won't happen. Thanks

My mother had the same problem with gambling. I never did it, but it is possible to go to the casinos in the area and tell them about her problems. If they see her on the property they would have to escort her out. Embarrasing, but probably very effective.

Casinos don't publish them well (shocker!), but they almost all (probably a state by state licensing requirement) must run what they call "Self-Exclusion" programs. The Gambler makes the decision to put themselves on the Exclusion List at any given casino (for a month, a year, 5 years, or permanently). My M-I-L did this at the HardRock, Tampa. They made a serious business out of photographing her, taking license info, explaining that being found on casino property after that point means you can be arrested, and if you're on the Exclusion list, you cannot legally collect any winnings (who ever wins at those places, anyhow??)

When I got her to do that, I slept a LOT easier. Lotto tickets, etc., are still out there, but it's one step to put yet another barrier between a gambler who kind-of-knows it's ruining her life but is weak when it comes to the addiction. Good luck - it's a long, ugly road, especially when dealing with someone who doesn't really want help most days. At this point, we try just to keep her from being homeless. Sad.

Thank you for the replies. I'm sure he isn't ready to self-exclude. But I will keep that info for later. Going to his casino of choice and telling them of the situation sounds interesting. It is a small place where they are all friends, the players, dealers,etc. They sound like they all are controled by the addiction. I might pay them a visit. Kind of scary though. The more people he is around that know, would make it more uncomfortable for him. Thanks again,

Day: Without knowing the rest of your story, this is hard advice to offer -- however, if he really doesn't want to even begin to face his problem with gambling, it may be time for you to look clearly at what it would take to leave him. You own half of his debt as a spouse. It is impossible to help someone who refuses to help themselves, but you CAN prevent him from hurting you further. You have to protect yourself.

Casinos prey on people with addictions, and at the end, they are not really interested in getting people healthy. Sad, but true. I wouldn't expect much help from the community of addicts there. The exclusion program is their one attempt, one that most states legally require that they have. (It's like asking RJReynolds to fund "QuitPlan" with their earnings from Tobacco sales).

Have you done an intervention with him, or are you waiting until it's "really ugly?" What is your personal definition of "really ugly?" I would try to find some assistance (a local GamAnon type family support program perhaps might offer guidance) to clearly evaluate your own options NOW, while you still have a roof over your head. Previous behavior tends to predict future behavior - It's more likely than not that the next five months will fly by, with him still not having another job (and there are plenty of people really TRYING to get jobs who still don't have them), and you facing the next steps in this mess of his making. If you're going to lose your home, you at least need to determine what steps YOU can take for YOU. His commitment to maintain his addiction may be more significant than his commitment to you or his health or your marriage... which is a sad reality for far too many people out there.

Good luck. And a big hug - this is not easy, but have faith that you can do this!

Viaggiatore, Thank you for such an honest reply. It is what I need to hear. I don't have a GamAnon close by but I do attend Al-Anon mtgs. I find I can't get past the feeling of, this is going to be ok, we've been together forever, he wants help but just can't ask yet, all those hopeful things. I know I still have some denial. I want to keep my family together, but maybe it's at their expense. I know your advice is what I need to do, acting on it is so difficult. I have so much strength and then I have very little.

I haven't done an intervention, but have thought about many times. Not sure how do it. In the last few months he has said two things to me. He said "I know I need help" and "I've tried to stop". That's where I have hope and maybe an intervention would work.

I am grateful for you taking the time to reply to me. Day

Day: rest assured, that whatever the outcome, you WILL be okay. But you will be more okay when you are in control of the situation. Waiting and hoping and praying that somehow the tug of 'we've been together forever' can overcome a vicious and continually-degenerating addiction is crazy.

The good news is that with a good support network, some addicts can change, get help, and live long happy lives in recovery. Though it's fair to warn you that most addicts only start the recovery process, WANTING to change, when they hit their version of 'the bottom.' What does the 'bottom' look like? When he loses the house? When he loses his wife? When he declares bankruptcy? When he is living in his car? (I've seen people at all those stages... for some, that's the bottom, for others, still not low enough.

What is YOUR version of the bottom? The fact that you're here even exploring these conversations means you're getting closer - that just the FEAR of losing those things is enough for you. But if your version of 'rock bottom' doesn't match his... you will need to be prepared to draw your own lines in the sand and protect yourself.

If he's even started to open the door by saying, "I need help" - how much more of an invitation are you waiting for? It sounds like he's aware enough of the realities that it might be successful if you push him to confront the illness by asking, "what is the bottom? when is enough enough?' And you will have to remind yourself nearly constantly that this isn't "HIM," it's the addiction that you're fighting. Choosing to fight FOR him when he hasn't yet chosen to fight for himself is a hard decision, but one that may be in your imminent future. And if it becomes obvious that he's not willing to participate in the fight -- then to choose to save yourself.

If he had cancer - and there was a treatment he was ignoring or refusing to participate in that could possibly save his life, I'd bet that you'd sit him down and have a serious talk with him, begging him to consider it. In my opinion, the life-threatening nature of degenerative addictions are similarly serious. Tough love may be your only path.

I started to say "today is not too soon to start" - but, the paradox of addiction is that it's all about timing: if you find an addict's window of willingness to be open to help, that's a key to success. Be patient and watch for your window. Each person's 'rock bottom' is different (and I've seen addicts with multiple 'bottom' loops -- hitting bottom, getting help, backsliding to a new low, etc.)

Enlist other friends or family members in your battle, talk with the AlAnon people about intervention resources as you evaluate your options. This is likely to be a long road.

hugs and good wishes to you... -V.

Viaggiatore, Your reply was again just what I needed to hear. You tell me like it is and I need that. I felt reality hit me hard. That's a good thing. You've given me some good information that will help me make decisions. I've read your replys several times today. You have been a great help to me. I will take time to digest all you have said. I know this time, if he isn't willing to fight the fight, I will save myself. Thank you,

Hugs and good wishes to you........... Day

Day: there are days when I wonder if I 'do any good' at my job. Today is one of those days! So I I'm honored to know that my comments helped you. Wishing you all the best in this fight -- you CAN do this. Just stay open to 'what is,' be honest with yourself, and above all, protect yourself first. You won't be good to anyone if you're a shell of a person at the end of all this. Keep us posted, we're all pulling for you.

V---- I've been reading and responding to a few sights about compulsive gambling for the past 4 yrs. Your replies are the first that have really opened my eyes to what I am living with. I feel so much more positive. You have been a blessing. You came at the right time in my life. I will check in later.

Hugs and very best wishes----Day