Helping from a distance with money matters posted by LauraL @ 02:35 AM July 10, 2008

LauraL — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 02:35:57 -0000

Hi Meiho,

Wow, that seems such a burden on you now. I'm sorry for that! Perhaps you can show him exactly where his money needs to go so he is more aware of what his spending affects? You might have already done so, but I thought I'd throw that out there. Hopefully when you visit you 'll find some answers.

~Laura

Helping from a distance with money matters posted by Meiho @ 05:51 PM July 09, 2008

Meiho — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:51:58 -0000

An update:

The learning of the past two months is that caregiving is like walking on shifting sand. About the time you think the footing is solid, something shifts.

My father continues to deteriorate, I'm afraid. Despite me paying all the bills and juggling the accounts, and adding my own money, he continues to write some large checks to himself every month and can't (or won't) tell me what they are for! I've created an Excel spreadsheet for all his checks, showing what they are for. The only think I can't account for are the checks to himself for cash. It doesn't seem to me that he needs to spend $700-800/month on groceries and gas and church contributions, but that's what he tells me it's for! Of course, I worry that he is being scammed or taken advantage of (this has happened to him in the past).

I've thought about asking him to keep a daily accounting of his expenditures, but that feels a lot like nosiness or prying. Is it really my responsibility to monitor every dime he spends? What would be the effect on our relationship?

I have gone through all of his accounts and tried to minimize expenses. For example, I found that he could have an "online special only" change in his AT&T account that would lower his bill by $20/month. Also discovered that he was paying twice as much as he needed to for car insurance. So I've made these changes (with his approval and thanks). It has taken his expenses down somewhat, but he thinks that gives him more money!

As mentioned in a previous post, I did set things up with the secretary/bookkeeper from his church that she would visit him every other week and go over his mail and bills and be my "eyes and ears." That went fine for a few weeks, but he said he didn't feel he needed her to be there, so it has ended.

If anyone has any additional suggestions, I'm happy to learn from you. Thanks!

I'm going to visit him at the end of this month and will see how much he has slipped.

Helping from a distance with money matters posted by LauraL @ 02:48 AM April 12, 2008

LauraL — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 02:48:47 -0000

Meiho, you rock. I think that remembering your father wants that social contact of paying the rent speaks to how close you are with him and recognizing his needs. Working a compromise - fantastic. He has some control, you have some control, and together, it will mesh. Best to you, best!

Helping from a distance with money matters posted by Kirby F @ 03:29 PM April 11, 2008

Kirby F — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:29:27 -0000

Meiho,

Thanks so much for the link to watch the special online. I missed it last week and have been meaning to go find it.

And, it's lovely that you're getting to a system that keeps the trains from going off the rails but still gives your father some control.

I need to remember how much can be gained from listening carefully.

Helping from a distance with money matters posted by Meiho @ 03:55 AM April 11, 2008

Meiho — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 03:55:43 -0000

Thanks to all of you for your kind words and support. It means a lot to me to think that I'm doing the right things, since there aren't any "training wheels" when you have to ride this new bike!

Update--I got a hit upside the head about the importance of frequenty and clear communication. I had told my dad I would pay all the bills, but he didn't "get it." We both paid his rent at the retirement home, and now he has almost no money for the month! Sooo, we had to renegotiate. I realize that he likes going down to the office of the retirement home and handing them his check. It's not just paying the rent, it's the social contact with the people in the office. He did the same thing at his previous place. So, the learning is that it's not always about efficiency--it's about the relationships. In this case, it's his relationship with the management of the retirement home. It's also, for him, the feeling that HE is paying HIS rent!

Soooo, we will limp along through this month. He forgot that I had the checkbook for his brokerage account, but I reminded him of that and that I could transfer funds for him. So, we are working things out.

He was sick last week. Seems like a lot of people at his retirement home had "the flu" or some GI upset. I feel so badly when these things happen that he is so alone. Luckily, he's not shy about contacting the home health agency and having someone come to help him. I've discovered that many of these retirement homes have home health agencies on site. For $10 a day, they will do "check-in" visits, morning and night, just to reassure the person, check to make sure that he is OK, etc. it's a great comfort for me to have that service available. They also know me, have my number, and know to call me if anything happens.

Did any of you watch the PBS Special last week on "Caring for Our Parents?" It was extremely well done. If you missed it, you can watch it online. Check www.aarp.org [aarp.org] and you can find a link to it. Well worth 2 hours of your time if you are caring for an elderly parent. It does not deal with long-distance caregiving, but still, I found it helpful.

Yes, Rebecca, the Don Not Call Registry is extremely important. My dad said he has noticed a decrease in calls, though it takes about 3 months for them to stop completely. Of course, it does not stop calls from charities, political parties, or businesses with whom you have previously done business, but it is still a help. I told my father that I appreciate his desire to help out charities, but that, right now, HE is the charity and he needs to help himself before helping others. He seemed to "get it."

Sorry, to be so long-winded in sharing my musings. Hope everyone else is doing well. Hang in there, and thanks again for your kind comments.

Helping from a distance with money matters posted by Rebecca @ 01:44 AM April 11, 2008

Rebecca — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 01:44:36 -0000

Hi Meiho. I really appreciate your sharing your story. I'm concerned about my dad who is many miles away too, and it gets me thinking about what I need to pay attention to. When you mentioned the 'telemarketers' it got me thinking that he should get his phone listed on the National "DO NOT CALL" registry. It seems like that would help. I get steamed up just thinking about what some of these companies do. Good luck!

Helping from a distance with money matters posted by Lisa B @ 01:36 PM April 04, 2008

Lisa B — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:36:36 -0000

I agree with the others- you've done an amazing job and have put in a lot of time and love to help get his finances straight. I LOVED your ideas - especially the contract and post it reminders! Role playing is also an awesome idea, I'm definitely jotting these down as ideas to give to others.

Best of luck to you and please continue to keep us updated.

Helping from a distance with money matters posted by LauraL @ 12:01 AM March 26, 2008

LauraL — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 00:01:09 -0000

Meiho, thanks for the update. While I'm sorry your father fell for the scams, I'm so very glad you are on top of things now and have tools and reminders in place. What a lucky man he is to have you. :)

Helping from a distance with money matters posted by Barbara Kate Repa @ 06:29 PM March 25, 2008

Barbara Kate Repa — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:29:19 -0000

Hello Meiho:

And thanks for the report from your front. As you know best, you did a huge amount of work -- and your patience and caring are most impressive. Exhausted though you may feel, hold the thought that you have done the best and most loving caretaking possible. Many people live to regret not taking the time and energy.

Loved your rolepaying, Post-It reminder and contract -- all of which help implant important thoughts and reminders. An am impressed by your clear-headed take that there may still be some slippage in your dad's future.

Be sure to take good care of yourself during this trying time. Good thoughts are with you.

Helping from a distance with money matters posted by Meiho @ 05:15 PM March 25, 2008

Meiho — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:15:51 -0000

Just thought I'd report back after my trip to visit my dad.

Things were worse than I imagined. He had succumbed to the telemarketers and catalog sales and was thousands of dollars in debt. He was shifting money from one of his many accounts to another to make minimum payments. It was a huge mess.

We sat down with the personal banker and spent several hours closing accounts (he had about 8 accounts open, including several credit cards and overdraft protection). We consolidated everything we could, and I paid off a few small balances to close other accounts.

All together, I cancelled and cut up credit cards to 8 other accounts! I called all the companies and was able to get some of the charges reversed. I ended up talking to the fraud division of the bank and credit card companies.

My dad and I had to have a number of serious talks. After about 5 days, he finally admitted that he didn't realize the scope of the problem, and he thanked me. He promised to "do his best" to question all of his expenses, be a smarter consumer, not buy things he didn't absolutely need, etc.

I'm not sure any of this will last, as it's clear that his mental state is declining. I have taken over all the bill-paying and monitor everything online.

I worked with him and role-played not answering his phone unless he knew who was calling, or dealing with telemarketers if he answered. I put a yellow sticky note on the phone with a script--"Hello, No, thank you, I'm not interested. Please take me off your list. Good-bye." I got him a phone that has both visual and oral caller ID and tried to get him to read and listen to the caller ID and not pick up the phone.

I wrote a "contract" with him about what his responsibilities are and what mine are and taped it to the inside of a file folder that he keeps next to his favorite chair. He's going to put all his bills in that folder and then send them to me once a week until I can get all the addresses changed to my address.

This is a huge amount of work, but if we can get it under control so that he limits his spending and gets off all these lists, it will be worthwhile. The frustrating thing is, I had sent him the information for the Do Not Call and DMM lists and told him to send them in last year, and he hadn't! GRRRRR!

Anyway, it was a definite lesson. Hopefully, we have both learned and can move ahead without too many more crises. Unfortunately, I think it may get worse before it gets better, but at least I have some allies in the bank.

See my other comments in the Monitoring Finances discussion on this website.

Helping from a distance with money matters posted by Meiho @ 05:28 AM March 12, 2008

Meiho — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 05:28:35 -0000

Thank you to each of you for providing a thoughtful response. It feels really good to have other people making suggestions. Here are my responses:

Kirby, yes, I've told him that failure to pay the LTC policy will result in it being cancelled. My frustration is that he got enough money from an annuity to pay it. I called him to remind him and he said he had sent in the check. I was shocked when I got a letter from the LTC company saying the premium hadn't been paid. I called the company and they said the check had bounced! When I called to ask him about it, he couldn't remember spending that money! He has written checks to himself over the past 4 months in varying amounts, $2,000 here and $3,000 there and odd amounts. When I ask him what he has spent the money on, he says he can't remember! I did call the LTC company back and they said he could pay it in installments--monthly, quarterly, semi-annually. Of course, it's more expensive that way, but we will work it out so that the policy stays in effect.

Barbara, on your recommendation, I got out my copy of his General Durable Power of Attorney with HIPAA Authorization. It appears that I am covered because the paragraph titles deal with Manage Assets, Deposits and Withdrawals, Checks, Borrowing, Safe Deposit Box, Litigation, Collection, Discharge of Debt, Insurance and Benefit Plans, Taxes, Securities, Services, Support, and issues related to his Revocable Trust. I talked with a knowledgeable person who said that, with these powers in place, I should never need to get a conservatorship. Whew!

My plan when I get there on Friday is to offer my help in taking over all of his finances. We are going to meet with his "Personal Banker" so that person knows me. The accounts are Joint Accounts. I will find out if I can limit the amount of any checks written by either of us to ourselves. Hopefully, that will take care of his large check-writing to himself. I'm also hoping that perhaps he squirreled the money away in his dresser drawer or home safe.

In talking with him today, it's pretty clear that he's becoming more and more forgetful. I like Barbara's idea of having someone check in on him. There is a woman from his church who I think would be trustworthy and helpful. I may enlist her assistance, even if I have to pay her!

But I do intend to set it all up so that his monthly bills are paid automatically or I pay them online like I do my own bills. I do have online access to the accounts, but the problem is that when I monitor things, I see checks written after the fact, and I need to make sure that he can't write these big checks to himself. That's the challenge--how to do that while still respecting his independence as long as possible.

It's not easy, becoming the parent!

Thank you for your thoughtfulness and support. I am not feeling quite so alone.

Meiho

Helping from a distance with money matters posted by LauraL @ 04:41 AM March 12, 2008

LauraL — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 04:41:32 -0000

Those are all really great responses! I had one thought - is it possible for you to be able to access his accounts via the internet to pay things and see when money's coming and going?

Helping from a distance with money matters posted by Barbara Kate Repa @ 01:43 AM March 11, 2008

Barbara Kate Repa — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:43:02 -0000

Hello Meiho:

So sorry to learn you're pinned in a difficult spot. It might help just a little to know that you're not alone: So many of us are trying to watch our parents age from afar and it's a tough task indeed--tinged with frustration, confusion, and often guilt.

But it sounds as if you're ahead of the pack. Your question and observations show that you are sensitized to your dad's situation and poised to help--two huge plusses.

When you visit, it will be time to try some tough and honest talk about your dad's finances and his ability to keep managing them on his own. Steel yourself--and know that there is often a lot of guilt and shame around losing the ability to manage money. This is often particularly true for men who have held the traditional role of breadwinner and billpayer--and your dad may be one of them.

It's a help that you already hold his power of attorney, as you can gently explain that you want to do your best to be sure that he's on solid ground financially--and that there may be ways to make that easier for both of you.

Be sure to take a hard look at the document that appointed you attorney in fact. There are two types of powers of attorney for finances: one type takes effect immediately, as soon as it's finalized; the other, often called a springing power of attorney, goes into effect only if a doctor certifies that your dad is incapacitated and no longer able to make sound decisions.

Obviously, you are in a better position to act if you have the broader type that takes effect at once. If you have only a springing power of attorney, your dad may be willing to change it to a immediate one after your conversation.

If this option doesn't work, you may consider the more drastic option of petitioning the local court to appoint you to be the guardian or conservator of your dad's finances, which will allow you to basically take over handling your dad's finances. This is a much easier step to take if your dad agrees to it.

And if it's not clear how you should proceed, it might be helpful to enlist a trusted soul who lives close to the retirement home to help keep an eyeball on your dad's spending situation and help monitor it. Retirement home administrators may be able to provide some help with this--or recommend someone local who can provide assistance.

Good luck to you. Let us know how it goes.

Helping from a distance with money matters posted by Kirby F @ 09:39 PM March 06, 2008

Kirby F — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:39:05 -0000

Hi Meiho! Welcome to Caring's community. I'm glad you posted!

You're really in a tough situation. I'm glad you'll get the opportunity visit your dad soon because his behavior has me wondering if he's having some health problems. It'll be great for you to sit down to talk with him, observe him, and possibly talk to those he's around every day, such as friends and caregivers. Perhaps, while I hope he's physically and mentally okay, someone will say something that will make this mystery start to unravel.

Make sure he knows that if he fails to pay his LTC insurance bill, they can cancel his policy. If it's a bill to stay in the long-term facility he's in, they can ask him to find different arrangements. This may change his living situation and man...that would be a huge headache for everyone! Is it possible to have that drafted directly from his account or possibly paid yearly?

I don't have any specific info on power of attorney for you, but I'm hopeful someone else who can answer your question will post.

Again, welcome to Caring's community!

Helping from a distance with money matters posted by Meiho @ 07:56 PM March 06, 2008

Meiho — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:56:29 -0000

My father lives 2,500 miles from me. I'm his only living relative. He lives in a nice retirement home and is getting along well there. In the past 4 months, he's been making some questionable money decisions. He has withdrawn about $10,000 from his two accounts (they are joint accounts with me). He has not paid his long-term care insurance bill, though I reminded him. He has bounced a number of checks. I monitor his accounts almost daily online, but I cannot control the checks he writes. When I ask him what he has done with the money, he says, "I don't know," "I don't remember," or "I can't tell you." I don't know if he can't tell me or won't tell me.

I am going to visit him next week and need some suggestions on how to handle this. I do have Power of Attorney for him. Many of his bills are paid automatically from his checking account. I hope to take away the checkbook for his stock account so he has to only use one account, thinking that it will be simpler for him.

Any ideas, suggestions?

Thanks so much. This is my first involvement with this website and I've learned a lot from the articles. It's great to be able to support each other during this time that is difficult for our parents and for us.

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